Am I crazy for considering downsizing.

[Statistical]

A friend of mine bought a Catalina 27. He has only had a few classes and asked me to take it out with him over the weekend. Just two of us so he can refine skills without looking silly in front of wife or other friends. We sailed it both Saturday and Sunday and then I called in sick (don't tell my boss) to sail it again this morning before the weather was scheduled to turn late this afternoon.

I have to say I am a bit jealous. I have missed how connected you feel to the water on a small boat. Anyone ever downsize? All you ever hear about it people moving on to bigger boats. To be clear I am not talking about downsizing because of inability to pay upkeep on a larger boat or age related inability to manage a larger boat but just a choice because smaller boats are fun.

Not sure I would go down to 27 foot as it might not have admiral approval. Maybe 30 to 32 foot though. Maybe I just have rose colored glasses for small boats because this weekend was a blast.

[George_SD]

I wish I could have a second smaller boat for exactly this reason. Much more fun in my view. It just doesn't work as well with 3 people and 2 dogs spending 10 days in Catalina...

[JPA Cate]

Hey, Statistical,

It may be that what your wife likes about your Rafiki, heavy displacement, stability, beautiful teak, is what prevents you from having that connected to the sailing environment feeling. A lightly built 27 foot, fin keel boat will always turn more quickly, and have the feel of a lighter helm. It is not just about waterline length or length overall, although certainly bigger boats generally are more stable than smaller ones.

Ultimately, if possible, take your wife out on the Catalina 27, if it's okay with your friend, and see if she likes it better as a boat. If so, then downsizing to a say Catalina 30 might just be the ticket for you. But be sure to involve her in the fun and the decision making.

Good luck to you both.

Ann

[Shanachie]

I have a Catalina 320 (not for sale). It sounds like what you want is that or the 310 or the 350.


It sails like a big, stable dinghy. I can match or beat many 38-footers. I've seen 7.5 knots on many occasions. 5-6 knots is the norm. The boat is perfectly balanced with the correct sail trim.



Down below, with 12 feet of beam, it has more room than the older 38-footers, including a queen-size aft cabin. The galley is spacious with a double sink.


Almost everything on the boat that needs servicing is easily accessible. No hanging over the diesel to change the packing in the stuffing box.


Downsides?


It is a light boat at maybe 12,000 pounds and 34 feet on deck. The flattish bottom means you pound if you try to motor into short-steep seas.



I've been in beam seas that reached 10 feet in the Gulf of Mexico, but I'm not sure I'd want more than that.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hey, Statistical,

It may be that what your wife likes about your Rafiki, heavy displacement, stability, beautiful teak, is what prevents you from having that connected to the sailing environment feeling. A lightly built 27 foot, fin keel boat will always turn more quickly, and have the feel of a lighter helm. It is not just about waterline length or length overall, although certainly bigger boats generally are more stable than smaller ones.

Ultimately, if possible, take your wife out on the Catalina 27, if it's okay with your friend, and see if she likes it better as a boat. If so, then downsizing to a say Catalina 30 might just be the ticket for you. But be sure to involve her in the fun and the decision making.

Good luck to you both.

Ann

Thanks for the insight. The Tayana 37 we have wasn't something we sought out it kinda just "worked out". Long story involving a friend of a family. Good idea on having my wife take a daysail or two on the Catalina 27. I think a lighter displacement 30 foot boot could be a good compromise in terms of nimbleness vs accommodations.

We originally had planned long cruises with the Tayana but we both have demanding jobs and schedules make that tough. We mostly have done long weekends and I think a 30 footer would still work although we will see.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

I have a Catalina 320 (not for sale). It sounds like what you want is that or the 310 or the 350.


It sails like a big, stable dinghy. I can match or beat many 38-footers. I've seen 7.5 knots on many occasions. 5-6 knots is the norm. The boat is perfectly balanced with the correct sail trim.



Down below, with 12 feet of beam, it has more room than the older 38-footers, including a queen-size aft cabin. The galley is spacious with a double sink.


Almost everything on the boat that needs servicing is easily accessible. No hanging over the diesel to change the packing in the stuffing box.


Downsides?


It is a light boat at maybe 12,000 pounds and 34 feet on deck. The flattish bottom means you pound if you try to motor into short-steep seas.



I've been in beam seas that reached 10 feet in the Gulf of Mexico, but I'm not sure I'd want more than that.

Thanks. Yeah if we did any serious offshore stuff I think I would prefer the Tayana but honestly we really don't and I don't see that changing for the next five years or so. Almost all sailing has been in the Chesapeake Bay a mix of daysails and long weekends. Not sure how the admiral will react to reduced stability/comfort but as suggested above I will see if I can get the two of us out on my friend's Catalina 27. It might be great or it might be where the downsizing plan ends.

[malbert73]

It may not be downsizing as much as something lighter and more responsive. Yes the chesapeake can kick up breeze and chop, but far more likely are light breeze days. A boat that can move in 6-8 knots of breeze is a must IMO if Chesapeake is primary cruising ground

[alctel]

I don't think you are crazy at all, different boats are good for different things. For long weekenders where a good portion is spent sailing, I think a Cal27 or something would be more fun than the Tayana.

Also it's easier to get better at sailing on small boats, everything is more immediate

[MartinF]

In Chesapeake Bay, a smaller boat (or a centreboarder) has a much greater chance of anchoring in an isolated bay or estuary - more places to explore!

[s/v Jedi]

What you experienced isn’t a smaller boat… it’s a light performance oriented boat.

Consider something like a Beneteau First or one of the fast Jeanneau’s or any of the modern designs.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

What you experienced isn’t a smaller boat… it’s a light performance oriented boat.

Consider something like a Beneteau First or one of the fast Jeanneau’s or any of the modern designs.

Sure, but there is more to it than that, there is a lot of difference in feeling between a 24' boat like a shark 24 and even a performance ordinated big boat like a J35 (two boats I've sailed recently)

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by alctel

Sure, but there is more to it than that, there is a lot of difference in feeling between a 24' boat like a shark 24 and even a performance ordinated big boat like a J35 (two boats I've sailed recently)

Yeah I think it is a bit of both.

Thanks for everyone providing insight. Make me feel less crazy for considering downsizing (or light sizing). I think a smaller and lighter boat would be a better fit but the big unknown is how my wife will react to that. She actually has never been on any sailboat of any before our Tayana 37 (except I think some catamaran tour we went on once).

[JPA Cate]

@ Statistical,

Jim used to have a Yankee 30, a conservative S&S design. We sailed that boat on weekends and vacations, and one year sailed it to HI from San Francisco and return. I think it is big enough for that. However, we also felt that it was tiring to always be sailing "on our ear". That boat was quick to heal to about 15 deg. and then stiffened considerably. It was a long trip back from HI on a boat with a 25 ft. waterline: 21 days, and it was educational for me. There's nothing like being seasick for 19 days in a row. ... It was a source of pride for me that I was able to stand my watches. (We do 6 on 6 off, which allows for very good sleep). It took me a long time to find out how to keep seasickness away, and I'm glad I put the effort into it.

Anyhow, the point is that 30 ft. is big enough for weekends and short cruises. And, fwiw, you're not alone in preferring a responsive boat, not at all.


Ann

[thomm225]

Yes!

I think of downsizing quite a bit except down from a 27' monohull sailboat like I have now and back to high tech beach cats.

I was out day sailing last weekend and some young folks were flying along on an old Hobie 16. This brought back tons of fun memories.

I raced on 4 different ones having 2 Hobie 16's, a Nacra 6.0, and finally a single handed Nacra 17 with spinnaker

The Nacra 17 has been changed since then though which was the early 2000's.

When sailing a beach cat a speed you really have the total sailing experience with a SA/Disp Ratio of close to 76.

I do wish though we had the lifting daggerboards back then, but even without those, we could hit speeds near 26 knots.

A good example of what I mean is that the 300 lb Nacra 17 I sailed had the same sail area as my 6600 lb Bristol 27

Lifting boards though would have put you in a whole new environment!

Upwind though they are pretty much as we were back in the day with one hull down and daggerboard down all the way

We moved as they do in the video for proper weight distribution but having the entire boat out of the water has got to be totally awesome to feel as a sailor

Plus being able to adjust mast rotation, downhaul, traveler position, mainsheet tension while trapped out at speed was always enjoyable and you'd usually get immediate results that you could feel with boat speed

I should also add that if you sail/race a beach cat for 5 hours like this you can feel it throughout your entire body as with buoy racing there are lots of tacks, gybes, and spinnaker raising and lowering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQDt7svQIxM

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Yeah I think it is a bit of both.

Thanks for everyone providing insight. Make me feel less crazy for considering downsizing (or light sizing). I think a smaller and lighter boat would be a better fit but the big unknown is how my wife will react to that. She actually has never been on any sailboat of any before our Tayana 37 (except I think some catamaran tour we went on once).

Your wife might get a kick out of the fact that it appears most of the Drivers/Skippers in this video are women......

Some of which are shown in a perfect position as they move along the hull, steer the boat, and adjust the main sheet tension at speed probably over 20 knots. Fully balanced ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQDt7svQIxM