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robert sailor · 09-06-2015, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

Bob's latest project... The guy's design brief mandated a full keel, a transom hung rudder, and TWIN ENGINES... Thankfully, Bob was able to eventually talk the guy out of the latter:-) I really like his solution to the transom hung rudder requirement, very interesting... I have a fair bit of time running Chuck Paine's Cabo Rico 42, which features a similar underbody...

Oh, and the hull is gonna be built from CARBON... And, he wants FOUR of them built, to give to various members of his family and/or to stage at various places around the world...

My newest project - Cruising Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

To my eye, this looks like a boat that will have superb sailing and seakeeping characteristics... I don't have too much experience with full-keelers, but a few winters ago I had the pleasure of taking a Cape George 31 south, and around to the FL west coast... It was a revelation, an absolutely wonderful boat, and surprisingly sprightly under sail... Only serious downside is the liability for close quarters maneuvering, that boat could have used a bow thruster, which seems a bit ridiculous on a boat of that size... But like the CR 42, with that cutaway forefoot and the windage of the double head rig placed so far foreward, once you lost the bow to the breeze, it was all over... :-)

As always, different strokes for different folks, but I certainly wouldn't consider a full keel to necessarily be outmoded, but rather only less suitable for certain styles of sailing and cruising, perhaps...

Not my cup of tea but I do like the salty looks of it. The concept that full keel boats are slow is not reality. Your example of the Cape George is a good one, those boats do very well in the trades and can usually keep up with most boats in there size range and leave many others in their wake. It helps to have big rigs and large sail areas which they have. I am getting tired of the Euro wedge look with its high slab sided free-board so its nice to see someone choosing something with more classic looks.

Muckle Flugga · 09-06-2015, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burge

Hi All,

Great responses and so far it appears the general consensus is on making sure the boat is structurally sound and well equip to deal with the worst conditions and then its all down to making good decisions and having sufficient boat handling skill.

So on the equipment side I do have removable inner forestay, storm jib, tri sail on dedicated track, a drogue and parachute style sea anchor, so I just need to practice actually using them now!

This is probably a ridiculous question but is there any inflatable masthead flotation devices on the market for yachts? I have seen them for dinghies etc but wondered if they were available for cruising boats. The GZ curve for my boat suggests it is more stable upside down then the right way up so it would be good to come up with some way to address this.

Also The Thunderbird suggested adding a torpedo ballast to the fin keel, I have considered this as my boat is very tender to sail and gets a decent lean on even with the faintest sniff of a breeze but have been deterred as I don't won't to naively interfere with a well design boat and upset the performance.

We are planning on going all the way round as long as the money lasts and my beloved crew member doesn't abandon ship after having the life scared out of her!

Thanks for all the Reponses so far.

Regards Anthony

Looking forward to seeing you both out there, mate!

Muckle Flugga · 09-06-2015, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Not my cup of tea but I do like the salty looks of it. The concept that full keel boats are slow is not reality. Your example of the Cape George is a good one, those boats do very well in the trades and can usually keep up with most boats in there size range and leave many others in their wake. It helps to have big rigs and large sail areas which they have. I am getting tired of the Euro wedge look with its high slab sided free-board so its nice to see someone choosing something with more classic looks.

Oh you and me both.

**Jim Cate** · 09-06-2015, 15:42

G'Day Burge,

Now that we have decided that you may indeed survive sailing in your non-bwb, where do you propose to be voyaging this season? If your plans include New Cal, perhaps we will meet in some nice anchorage and we can compare notes on our unsuitable vessels. That is, if I don't die on the way...

Jim

lifeofreilly57 · 09-06-2015, 19:21

The book "Sailing a Serious icean" Fit The description for sailing my previous boat where forereaching and active storm ratios fit the tendencies of that boat. An 8 ton racer cruiser, I did have an inner forestay with a storm sail as an option, I would highly recommend it. It excelled in light and moderately heavy conditions but did require more attention in heavy weather. It was worth the tradeoff. Now though I have a wife and young boys which requires a different mode of sail.
Farr 40? Damn, I'd cruise it anytime, just couldn't afford one when I was in that mode.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Strait Shooter · 10-06-2015, 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

****..

I'm dead

No, you just smell that way! 😃

westwinds · 10-06-2015, 06:47

Heavy Weather Essentials by Beth A. Leonard & Evans Starzinger is a good read for fin keel storm management. A fin keel is going to require active management, someone at the helm full time that is not tired out. See the Beth A. Leonard & Evans Starzinger article: http://estarzinger.com/estarzinger/pdf/HeavyWeather.pdf Heavy Weather Essentials. A full keel or cut away keel with a sea anchor requires a look every hour or so for chaffing of gear and the ride is comfortable. See Lin and Larry Pardy's book, Storm Tactics Handbook: Modern Methods of Heaving-to for Survival in Extreme Conditions, 3rd Edition

westwinds · 10-06-2015, 08:10

Here is another article about riding out bad weather in a fin keel boat: http://estarzinger.com/estarzinger/pdf/heavingto.pdf

robert sailor · 11-06-2015, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by westwinds

Heavy Weather Essentials by Beth A. Leonard & Evans Starzinger is a good read for fin keel storm management. A fin keel is going to require active management, someone at the helm full time that is not tired out. See the Beth A. Leonard & Evans Starzinger article: http://estarzinger.com/estarzinger/pdf/HeavyWeather.pdf Heavy Weather Essentials. A full keel or cut away keel with a sea anchor requires a look every hour or so for chaffing of gear and the ride is comfortable. See Lin and Larry Pardy's book, Storm Tactics Handbook: Modern Methods of Heaving-to for Survival in Extreme Conditions, 3rd Edition

Just rig a series drogue and lock the wheel and get some rest if you are in conditions that the boat will no longer self steer.

westwinds · 12-06-2015, 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Just rig a series drogue and lock the wheel and get some rest if you are in conditions that the boat will no longer self steer.

Most boats forereach quite comfortably because of the slick that is created.

barnakiel · 12-06-2015, 09:10

I think it makes plenty of sense to have at least one 'panic' mode of navigation for every sudden emergency (a bad bad gust, an extremely confused patch of water, a knockdown, an electric storm, etc.).

Something that will be, maybe, not the smartest move of them all BUT that will buy us some time to cool down, re-think, re-group and then adjust to the situation once the adrenaline rush is somewhat subdued. This will likely be related to what your boat is and what you are (all about).

I say this as I am aware that there may be moments when the driving person may be just too tired, or to shocked, to keep on doing what might be 'objectively' best at any given moment.

Given how easy it is to bear off, furl, and chuck a drogue over the stern, towing a drogue while running before the blow may be just such a panic technique at times. You do what you know will work 99% of the time, you cool down and get some rest, you start thinking with clearer head, you follow up with whichever action you consider best for your safety.

I think we all develop our own bags of panic tricks when we sail many offshore miles where thunderstorms, squalls and bad seas all may put our otherwise decent level of skills to a sudden high adrenaline test.

Cheers,
b.

robert sailor · 12-06-2015, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by westwinds

Most boats forereach quite comfortably because of the slick that is created.

In my experience slicks are created when the boat is stopped and slipping downwind but that only seems to work on the full keel boats. When you forereach you are slowly going upwind which most if not all fin keel boats do but then its good bye slick.

Muckle Flugga · 13-06-2015, 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert sailor

In my experience slicks are created when the boat is stopped and slipping downwind but that only seems to work on the full keel boats. When you forereach you are slowly going upwind which most if not all fin keel boats do but then its good bye slick.

Correct. Forereaching does not cause a boat to stop behind its "slick". Such a thing is both possible and very useful, but can only be achieved by fine tuning a hove to position, or else fine tuning a sea anchor ride. In the latter case the Pardey off centre technique (by use of a line on a block with the anchor rode through led back to a cockpit winch) is best for achieving this, and more or less results in a heave to position while riding to a sea anchor. The Pardey technique is only useful for boats up to a certain size, however, as the loadings and rode sizes on larger vessels make the use of a block on the primary rode impractical.

Fifo · 17-07-2015, 05:41

Anthony,

Congrats on the purchase of a very capable yacht. I have sailed one of sister ships New Zealand to Spain. Also raced her several times up the Pacific, and won. Numerous miles crusing as well. Perhaps the best advice for your boat would be to talk to the ones being raced in Auckland. Neptunes Gear earlier in the thread would be a good start. As there are several living Kiwi sailors who are currently racing and crusing these boats you may find it advantageous to talk, perhaps even sail with them rather than web based opinions. Have you introduced yourself on the Kiwi web site crew.org.nz ? They are a friendly lot. Anthony I think you have acquired a beautiful highly capable ocean yacht, but your best assistance may be tied up next door. Enjoy.
Fifo.