Amel 50 vs. Garcia 52 vs. Discovery 48

[Eleuthera 2014]

In my opinion, lifting keels are a devil’s invention. Wait until you have to clean the barnacles in the storage well or break tthe he lifting system or worse yet is to have some wear on the lifting keel pivot which causes a clunk on every wave.... does not take long before you start thinking ‘how long before we lose it’...

An Amel for me please :-)

[Harielsp]

Are they really comparable ? I mean, Garcia is focused on high latitude sail and has a strong aluminiun hull. As far as I know, Amel and Discovery have a GRP hull.
I would compare Garcia with Boreal any KMY metallic boat eventhough Garcia seems far better built than Boreal and I have some restriction about internal volume of any KMY sailboat (they seem big outside and incredible small and poorly distributed internally)

Does anyone recall Southerly 48 ?? It has swing keel also

[Paul Reading]

You are not comparing like with like. The Amel is way more expensive than the Discovery and the Garcia is not a cruising boat it is more of an expedition boat, the better comparison is the Allures 52, which is the same kitchen as the Garcia I believe.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Paul Reading

You are not comparing like with like. The Amel is way more expensive than the Discovery and the Garcia is not a cruising boat it is more of an expedition boat, the better comparison is the Allures 52, which is the same kitchen as the Garcia I believe.

The OP compares them for his choice. so to him they are comparable and have their pros and cons and that is what he is asking to help with the choice.
If you can afford the Garcia go for it, exploration with comfort and go anywhere.
Well 48-52ft is big for a couple, 45ft would be cost/maintenance /space optimum that even sails work manually, add 2 motorized ones for comfort and you are good. Garcia also makes a 45 if I remember right...

[shimari]

Originally Posted by Harielsp

...

Does anyone recall Southerly 48 ?? It has swing keel also

The Discovery 48S is the same boat. Discovery purchased Southerly a few years back. Boats under 48' will be under the Southerly brand, and 48' and above will be Discovery.

We went through this same process, and we looked at the same boats. We opted for the Southerly 42. While I want to circumnavigate, the realities of life/work make that impossible. We'll be cruising the bay, the east coast of the US, and the Bahamas. We decided there was no need for a boat over 45', and wanted a lifting keel to gunkhole.

[wkg]

Hi all !

I am new to the forum. I am also in the process of building the short list of the yachts for 50 years old couple. I plan to sail few years north of Europe, than Atlantic loop. Also hope returning to Patagonia - this time on my own yacht. So the main decision was between older CC with hardtop (Amel, HR, Contest, Najad ... ) and limited draft (lifted keel or centerboard). 45-50 ft.

The new HR-s, Najads, Amels and Contests in my opinion are not blue water vessels any more. Maybe Med. The unprotected sword rudders are extremely vulnerable, double rudders with one propeller are almost useless in ports while mooring, retractable thrusters ale also vulnerable - nightmare.

Bestevears are custom build (too expensive) and have strange interiors but very protective cockpit. Island Packets (you can LOL at me ) are safe but the shipyard condition is very difficult. Kraken (love the underwater design and cockpit) is a startup.

So if a new yacht is concerned only the second hand CC with hardtop and french centerboards are in the game.

Originally Posted by Harielsp

I would compare Garcia with Boreal any KMY metallic boat eventhough Garcia seems far better built than Boreal and I have some restriction about internal volume of any KMY sailboat (they seem big outside and incredible small and poorly distributed internally)

That surprises me. I have never heard any concerns about Boreal's quality. Moreover - at the moment Boreal is hands down winner for me.

- Ovnis, Garcias, Allures - all have internal hull ballast. Boreal has a balast in small keel (keel embryo as they call it). Such a design lowers the center of gravity improving the stability. The AVS and stability chart of Boreal is surprisingly good for me - even if computer calculated. OVNI and Garcia jealously hide the stability chart. I know that no centerboard sunk because of capsize but Aleksander Doba crossed the Atlantic from NY to Europe in a kayak - it does not mean, that kayaks are proper vessels for crossing the Atlantic
- Boreal has both the dodger and small pilothouse after watertight door. I lke it veeeeery much. The crew is very well protected by the dodger and you can navigate in enclosed pilothouse.
- The nav station of Boreal is in the pilothouse, in Garcia far from the helm - at the front of the saloon.

So, Boreal is the winner at the moment, but 4 concerns:

- The engine. They load Volvos and Yanmars - poor designs with common rail, electronically controlled injectors, fuel quality sensitive precise injectors, turbo, chain or even belt driven timing gear, electronic everywhere. I love Kubota (Nanni or Beta Marine), maybe small Perkins or John Deere - if enough fuel - must start. It's not a yacht for day-sailing close to nearest service !! And - try to fix VolvoPenta in Ushuaia or Puerto Williams waiting months for the parcel.
- The main sheet, halyard and reefing lines are driven to cockpit with few 90 degree angles - so significant friction. Its probably difficult to reduce the main in hard conditions.
- Although the crew is super-protected by dodger and pilothouse the helm position is exposured in very Med-style. It concerns all french centerboards i guess Bestevaers and ie IP cockpits fits my needs better,
- The last - i think, that if the owners cabin and maybe the one of guest cabin would have been watertight the yacht waoukd have the positive buoyancy - priceless in yachts with such a shallow draft.

At the very end - if i have money enough and crew enough - my yacht would be: Pelagic Yachts 55. Dreaming

Sorry for such a long post - I was a reader for along time. Any comments are highly appreciated - especially on stability chart for OVNI and Garcia.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Here is a video of someone that decided between the Amel 50 and the Garcia 52.

I think Amels are interesting boat and think I understand their appeal, but after watching this video, while I think his is a very nice boat and he has a very cute family, he's got it chock full of gadgets (and 2 of everything) that he has no idea how to maintain. Also, while he's very pleased with his engine room and I have to confess I'm a bit envious of it too, when talking about how roomy it was, he said he "had a guy over in the corner changing the engine impeller" rather than " I changed the impeller the other day and had no trouble accessing it" or something like that. I'm no diesel mechanic but it's hard to believe there are people sailing around the world who hire other people to do something as simple and routine as an impeller change and that apparently seems perfectly normal to them. Times have changed!

[Joli]

Originally Posted by ol1970

HR's are such beautiful boats, and my wife being Swedish would love it! The only drawback for us is they seem a little "darker" inside vs. the others, more cave like if that makes sense.

When you're out in the bright sunlight all day a darker interior is a welcome retreat.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Emouchet

A 52' boat is a huge boat. If you look at sailing a lot, the size of all the gear needed to handle the sails is going to drain you.

If you observe large >=45' sail boat on your sailing area you will find out that those guys do not sail for a 2-3 hours sails. They will motor because this is too much work! Especially with small crew, like husband and wife....

That's nonsense.

[ol1970]

Originally Posted by Joli

When you're out in the bright sunlight all day a darker interior is a welcome retreat.

Yes, my wife and I visited the Hallberg Rassy factory this summer and toured the manufacturing process and spent some time aboard the new 50. Stunning boat with the light oak interior, it is definitely on the short list as well. Just at $1.8M for a 50 footer, I look at what else our options are and it looses a tab bit of its luster.

The other thing I keep coming back to is the following: every single long term liveaboard I've met personally and discussed the boat topic with has switched from monohull to a catamaran. Okay my sample size might be small at 12-15 couples, but the only ones who had not yet done it was because of the finances, not desire.

I'm not sold yet on our direction, I just love mono's but the wife's gotta be happy!

[noelex 77]

You have shortlisted some fantastic boats, but there is no "right answer". Each of these vessels has pros and cons and even these are not absolute. Boat A may have a better layout for some customers, but may be terrible for others.

My suggestion would be to at least define your priorities. The forum can help with specific questions such as build quality, sailing ability etc, but less so with subjective choices such as if the layout is better or worse.

With respect, at least try and decide between cats and monohulls. These boats have very different strengths and weakness. Once again there are no "right answers", personally I like both types of vessels, but this is the first basic choice and what suits my priorities is unlikely to suit yours.

[ol1970]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

You have shortlisted some fantastic boats, but there is no "right answer". Each of these vessels has pros and cons and even these are not absolute. Boat A may have a better layout for some customers, but may be terrible for others.

My suggestion would be to at least define your priorities. The forum can help with specific questions such as build quality, sailing ability etc, but less so with subjective choices such as if the layout is better or worse.

With respect, at least try and decide between cats and monohulls. These boats have very different strengths and weakness. Once again there are no "right answers", personally I like both types of vessels, but this is the first basic choice and what suits my priorities is unlikely to suit yours.

I appreciate the comments! So my wife and I are very blessed because we do have some pretty great choices on our hands. It absolutely comes down to compromises. Our current plan is to actually get some time at the helm of all of these boats, visit the factories, and make a truly informed decision. Our current timeline is commission a build in the next 18 months, 2 year build time, 1 year of shakedown, then heading off.

The other little caveat is that we want to be able to leave the boat on the hard for periods of time. We are very fortunate because my wife retired from the airline industry and we have free flights for life pretty much anywhere in the world we want to go, that really opens up our options so our retirement consists of a ton of traveling to land based activities as well, not just by boat. This means that we will probably do our travels in stints of 6 months at a time, and having a boat that lends itself to being pulled out easily and stored might win out. Having a catamaran with 25' beam would limit our options for sure.

[noelex 77]

Sounds like a great plan. My wife and I have been full time cruising for 14 years and it is a fantastic lifestyle.

Boat choice is very personal, so take some time so that you end up with something that suits your needs and priorities.

[ol1970]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Sounds like a great plan. My wife and I have been full time cruising for 14 years and it is a fantastic lifestyle.

Boat choice is very personal, so take some time so that you end up with something that suits your needs and priorities.

My reason for so strongly considering a monohull is we have family in Sweden that live right on a fjord right up from Ellos where the HR factory is. It is some of the most beautiful sailing grounds in the world and much more friendly to monos than cats. I'd really like to spend time in that region and the Mediterranean while her parents are still a little younger and could join us here and there, plus be able to anchor in front of their home from time to time.

The pull to the catamaran is to just get busy seeing all the amazing remote tropical spots where having a shallow draft comes in handy. This is something I've experienced the advantage of first hand during our sailing trips. I wouldn't have been able to anchor or pick up a mooring ball in half of the places we've been in the south pacific with a deep draft keel. But I'm sure we would just adapt.

One thing though has really stuck with me that a few liveaboards have mentioned. Pick your boat by the size of tender you plan on using. Having a nice 25hp (or greater) tender with a chart plotter that you can easily take 5-10 miles is a game changer. This forum would probably be disgusted to know that we also planning some time on a nice sized Nordhavn just to see.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by ol1970

Yes, my wife and I visited the Hallberg Rassy factory this summer and toured the manufacturing process and spent some time aboard the new 50. Stunning boat with the light oak interior, it is definitely on the short list as well. Just at $1.8M for a 50 footer, I look at what else our options are and it looses a tab bit of its luster.

The other thing I keep coming back to is the following: every single long term liveaboard I've met personally and discussed the boat topic with has switched from monohull to a catamaran. Okay my sample size might be small at 12-15 couples, but the only ones who had not yet done it was because of the finances, not desire.

I'm not sold yet on our direction, I just love mono's but the wife's gotta be happy!

We won't go to a multi for a couple of reasons, my wife abhors the motion of a multi and the only multi I would own would end up upside down, I like to press a boat.
That said, we know many couples who enjoy there multis and many more couples who like their monos.
It's a personal decision, pick what is best for you.