Amel, Oyster, Discovery...Our lengthy search continues

[sailingharry]

A couple of thoughts. And for sure, your questions elicit nothing but opinions -- it's not a very "factual" question! Lol.

Our boat is a Saga 43, 22,000 lbs, solent rig, 64' air draft, 7' water draft.

* Big is hard(er?) to handle. I can lift the main on our boat alone, a buddy put his on single handed (same boat). I wonder if you and the missus could do it with BOTH of you in a 55 foot boat. My 5'4 wife can coil a spring line herself -- I doubt yours could do one for a 55 foot boat. I can physically lift my anchor (on dock for maintenance, etc).

* Big is, well, big. When my wife hands over the bow line, I reach back and toss over the stern line. Aft cockpit helps there, of course.

* We are really 51' (one marina measured us[emoji20]), counting stuff at both ends. Not all marinas can handle that real length. Not all mooring fields can either.

* 7' draft and 64' air draft are limiting, depending on where you go. Atlantic ICW is tight. Erie canal was "difficult" with our 7' draft. I hear the Bahamas will be hard (but I hear it can be done).

* We lived 4 months aboard in both 2021 and 22, and never felt at all cramped (while covering a total of 7,000 miles in very remote areas). And never felt we had too much or too little boat. A friend on the same boat lives full time with a 13 (?) year old girl, including trans Atlantic passages.

Of course, big has room for a washer/dryer, can easily hold a bigger dinghy (our 9' sticks out both sides of our transom), has more privacy and kid room, carries more water and fuel, probably makes faster passages (don't count on it -- the Saga 43 is F-A-S-T!), a much larger fridge/freezer, can fit a compressor for SCUBA tanks, etc etc.

My opinion, just for you to ponder. Bigger isn't really "bad" -- but smaller isn't necessarily bad either. Every choice comes with its own set of consequences!

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Shrew

What is your timeline?

What is your boat ownership and operational experience?

Most insurance companies are going to shy away from a 50ft as a first boat. Any lending institutions will require comprehensive insurance.

Timeline is flexible, been looking for a year already and beginning to get serious but it just depends on what comes to market and what logistics are involved for us at that time.

We each have a lifetime of boating experience. Last boat I managed was a Hunter Passage 42. I felt it was too small for our needs. We will definitely be getting more experience and coaching since its been about 5 years since regularly sailing and things tend to get rusty. I think we will be fine with a 50 footer, or at least the ones we are considering.

[Lee Jerry]

Originally Posted by Indecenseas

Ooh, I quite like that. Although, I sort of feel like it has a bit of a slow look and feel to it, almost "motorsailey-ish". However I'm no naval architect so I could be way off.

Nice vessel for sure! Thanks for sharing! I'll be reading up on it and seeing if the urge to buy a plane ticket and go take a look arises.

There are few in your neck of the woods:
Tayana 58
Tayana 52

However, I think you'll need to consider the East Coast and Caribbean for more options. You can then either keep it there or have it delivered back to CA. Delivery would be a small percentage in the price range you're considering.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

There are few in your neck of the woods:
Tayana 58
Tayana 52

However, I think you'll need to consider the East Coast and Caribbean for more options. You can then either keep it there or have it delivered back to CA. Delivery would be a small percentage in the price range you're considering.

Oh very nice! May have to go take a looksie! You know, I don't know too much about Tayana but I know people like them. I do see some 2006 Oyster 56's here and there in the price range of the T58 you shared, and my knee jerk reaction is to go for the Oyster...I think it would come down to the construction and safey of one vs the other.

Well in fact we have just expanded our search to include pretty much everywhere depending on final word from the lender...logistically its going to be a bit complex which may add some time but I think we can swing it some time this fall perhaps if things line up. Not really in a rush but if the right thing comes along I think we'd drop everything and go for it!

[category4jay]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Baby maker? You sound charming...

Oh Boy. Be warned. Tread lightly on this forum future Captain. LOLOL!!

[category4jay]

OK everyone dont filet me but I have to ask. Given your $500k to $750k budget have you considered a.......cat? Let the fun begin.

[shimari]

Given your expanded search, I'd add Contest to your list. Contest builds all of its yachts with a Lloyd's register hull construction certificate. AFAIK, they're the only ones doing that still. Oyster use to do it, but I believe they stopped.

Contest builds fewer yachts than Oyster and they're harder to find, but there's a 50CS and 55CS for sale right now in your price range. You'll unlikely find one in the US.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by Indecenseas

Yes Kraken are great from what I can tell and what I hear but they are still newer-ish and working to establish themselves with long term reliability and support, at least as best I can tell so far. I do like their yachts a lot but I'm not sure that they are my cup of tea, perhaps in the future.

I think if we end up spending $1m+ it will most likely be on an oyster 575 or late model 56 that we refit. Or perhaps the Amel 55. I do also think Hylas has made its way onto our radar for sure but I need to see one in person and try and get on one.

As i'm looking into so many of these good suggestions from folks, many good options come up that are in existence but not necessarily easy to find or for sale.

if this were me...
i'd add any Dashew designed sundeer or kelly archer to my list... a bit more lenght at waterline.. but safer(relatively easy to sail short handed) and probably more comfortable under sail than anything else on your list.


not sure if its still on the market.. but there was an alumninum hull Dashew for sale in Los Angelos for more or less your budget.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by category4jay

OK everyone dont filet me but I have to ask. Given your $500k to $750k budget have you considered a.......cat? Let the fun begin.

give him time...

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by category4jay

OK everyone dont filet me but I have to ask. Given your $500k to $750k budget have you considered a.......cat? Let the fun begin.

BAHAHA NOWWW WE'RE GETTING SOMEWHERE!! LOL, actually yea we have! but ended up deciding against it for now...perhaps down the line...It would be more stable near surfing anchorages and easier to outrun storms as they say... but for us personally, I think our first major passage, ocean crossing private vessel should be a monohull...

Plus the future wifey is the boss and she would feel much better in terms of safety in a monohulll....that might speak more to my adrenaline seeking than the seaworthiness of solidly built cats haha.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by chubby

give him time...

LOL

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by shimari

Given your expanded search, I'd add Contest to your list. Contest builds all of its yachts with a Lloyd's register hull construction certificate. AFAIK, they're the only ones doing that still. Oyster use to do it, but I believe they stopped.

Contest builds fewer yachts than Oyster and they're harder to find, but there's a 50CS and 55CS for sale right now in your price range. You'll unlikely find one in the US.

Yes okay good idea, I totally forgot about these and have never been on one. But I'm all for looking into good builds and see whats out there. Might even get lucky!

EDIT: From what I can tell, most reports discuss solid construction, although balsa core hull...I am trying to avoid balsa core below the waterline

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by chubby

if this were me...
i'd add any Dashew designed sundeer or kelly archer to my list... a bit more lenght at waterline.. but safer(relatively easy to sail short handed) and probably more comfortable under sail than anything else on your list.


not sure if its still on the market.. but there was an alumninum hull Dashew for sale in Los Angelos for more or less your budget.

At the risk of sounding like I've never even heard of water or sailboats, I'll admit to not even knowing the name Dashew...but thats what this post is for! I'll read up on those and see if the aluminum one is still for sale. Honestly an aluminum hull is probably way out of my knowledge base and I would have a hard time knowing which ones would make for awesome circumnavigators... They seem to be more purpose build for northern latitudes and less cruisery or tropic friendly but I wouldn't yet know if that holds any substantial truth or if I've assumed that so far.

Were I to develop any ideas or intention of northern latitude sailing I think it would be with professional guides and likely not for many years if going in my own vessel. I'd love to crew for trips like this though.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Indecenseas

Honestly an aluminum hull is probably way out of my knowledge base and I would have a hard time knowing which ones would make for awesome circumnavigators... They seem to be more purpose build for northern latitudes and less cruisery or tropic friendly but I wouldn't yet know if that holds any substantial truth or if I've assumed that so far.

Aluminium boats are generally well suited for tropical environments. The thick insulation used in their construction is essential for high latitude sailing, but has significant advantages in tropical conditions, keeping the boat cooler. The elimination of most points of potential deck leaks helps keep the boat mould free, especially when combined with insulation.

The aluminium construction also offers significantly better impact protection. This is highly desirable/essential in higher latitudes due to risk of ice, but also has advantages, reducing the risk of water ingress with the type of collisions you outlined in post #1. In addition, multiple watertight bulkheads/doors are a common feature in this type of boat.

Something like this will give you some idea (although it has now sold):

https://yachtfull.com/brokerage/168

[VikingBlod]

2 years ago I went down a similar road looking for a boat I could live on and sail around the world. I looked at the Oysters, Swans, etc.. I convinced myself I needed a safe boat so eliminated the production boats. But 3 factors continued to bother me. One was the small size of the cockpits on many of the centre cockpit boats and the difficulty entering and exiting (Little Harbour I think has the best cockpit design of all of them). Another problem with the older boats was access to the water, while Oysters have a sugar scoop I would think the dingy gets in the way. And the 3rd factor was my need for simplified sailing (self tacking jib, electric winches, not electric or hydraulic furling, all sail control from the cockpit) which very few of the older boats offer.

Last year I helped a friend sail his boat to Antigua from Hampton VA with the Salty Dawg rally. Sailed on a Hanse 508, but also got lots of time to talk to many others about boat choices and experiences during their voyage and compare it to our own. I highly recommend getting on the boats you're considering as crew to see if they are right for you. As an example I know that the Hanse 508 is not right for what I am looking for and it has nothing to do with sailing ability (the boat was fast and stable) but more related to how the boat was laid out and the systems.

When I started looking 2 years ago I did so with this bigger vision and a bigger budget in mind. I have also rationalized that and realized it's better to get a capable boat more suited to how I like to sail and take each day as it comes.

Remember, sailors will tell you that you spend ~ 80% of your time at anchor or marina and at most ~20% actually sailing. So cockpit layout and space is important to me, but, I want that 20% to be fun as that's what I m going to remember.

So I am currently looking at a X-Yachts XC45, XC50 or a X4.9 as they are quality built boats and offer many of the things I am looking for.