Amel, Oyster, Discovery...Our lengthy search continues

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Aluminium boats are generally well suited for tropical environments. The thick insulation used in their construction is essential for high latitude sailing, but has significant advantages in tropical conditions, keeping the boat cooler. The elimination of most points of potential deck leaks helps keep the boat mould free, especially when combined with insulation.

The aluminium construction also offers significantly better impact protection. This is highly desirable/essential in higher latitudes due to risk of ice, but also has advantages, reducing the risk of water ingress with the type of collisions you outlined in post #1. In addition, multiple watertight bulkheads/doors are a common feature in this type of boat.

Something like this will give you some idea (although it has now sold):

https://yachtfull.com/brokerage/168

That is definitely now on the list of must sees and I'll see if I can get on one! They seem like unicorns on the market though. Most likely have to be custom ordered I suppose?? If so that would be out of the ball park in terms of what we are willing to spend for this stage of things.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by VikingBlod

I highly recommend getting on the boats you're considering as crew to see if they are right for you.
Remember, sailors will tell you that you spend ~ 80% of your time at anchor or marina and at most ~20% actually sailing. So cockpit layout and space is important to me, but, I want that 20% to be fun as that's what I m going to remember.

You make some excellent points. I was reflecting about that last night so it's funny you mention it. I agree, I definitely need to more actively seek to crew on more of the boats we are looking at. Even if it means flying to other parts of the world. So much is difficult to get answers to without first hand experience and brokers and sea trials are so limiting so far as my experience. It's been discouraging really but we are determined haha. A couple boats in our list seem really difficult to get on and we we've even looked for charter options but I think we would only do this on one or two boats that we really like and can't find an opportunity to crew on.

It's funny, in a way our list has gotten longer as a result of joining this forum, yet in a really good way and it may add some time to the search to go about things right but that's going to be the best thing for us because we are chomping at the bit to pull the trigger on something yet forcing ourselves to be patience and do our due diligence as well as wait for that great opportunity to come along.

In the end I want to know we are extra super duper safe, can manage the boat along with majority of repairs ourselves, actually enjoy sailing the vessel, and can be comfortable at anchor or marina...so storage is also a big factor.

There's no such thing as the perfect boat, but when we find the right balance of trade offs for our needs, hopefully we will be ready!

[category4jay]

Originally Posted by chubby

give him time...

yup

[category4jay]

Originally Posted by Indecenseas

BAHAHA NOWWW WE'RE GETTING SOMEWHERE!! LOL, actually yea we have! but ended up deciding against it for now...perhaps down the line...It would be more stable near surfing anchorages and easier to outrun storms as they say... but for us personally, I think our first major passage, ocean crossing private vessel should be a monohull...

Plus the future wifey is the boss and she would feel much better in terms of safety in a monohulll....that might speak more to my adrenaline seeking than the seaworthiness of solidly built cats haha.

Well never say never future Captain. Just a quick question. Have you and "the Boss" gone to a boat show and stepped onboard some boats (cats included)?
Best of Luck in your search!

[CarlF]

I owned a Discovery 55 but now have a 50ft Leopard cat, while the Discovery was a wonderful boat (my favorite monohull out of six owned) I feel qualified arguing the cat point.

Much of the talk you see about cats are from people looking for high speed. I understand the appeal but I prefer cruising at 8 knots to the noise, discomfort, fatigue, and risk of higher speed. My Discovery and Leopard average almost exactly the same day’s run (180 NM)

Cat advantages

1) 7ft+ draft is very limiting in many places you’d like to go.

2) The comfort at sea and especially at anchor is much better - little rolling in harbor or downwind at sea. Much easier for children.

3) outfitted with performance sails and folding props it matches the Discovery even upwind and outperforms at all other angles. A 110 degree tacking angle (including leeway)measured by the track on the chartplotter.

4) much less seasickness. I had a friend who had to give up cruising when one of their children was prone to serious seasickness n their monohull.

5) better safety. You really can’t flip a heavy cruising cat like you can a carbon fiber high performance cat. If you hit something at sea, only one hull floods - the boat will not sink. Safety of two engines and two rudders.

6) Two hulls make for much better privacy for a family or guests. It’s easy to “get away” from others for a while.

7) much more room for tankage, watermakers, large beds, washer/dryers, clothes, stores. Can handle a larger dinghy which will be important with kids.

8) These are very seaworthy boats. Many Leopards are delivered on their own bottom from Cape Town.

[category4jay]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I owned a Discovery 55 but now have a 50ft Leopard cat, while the Discovery was a wonderful boat (my favorite monohull out of six owned) I feel qualified arguing the cat point.

Much of the talk you see about cats are from people looking for high speed. I understand the appeal but I prefer cruising at 8 knots to the noise, discomfort, fatigue, and risk of higher speed. My Discovery and Leopard average almost exactly the same day’s run (180 NM)

Cat advantages

1) 7ft+ draft is very limiting in many places you’d like to go.

2) The comfort at sea and especially at anchor is much better - little rolling in harbor or downwind at sea. Much easier for children.

3) outfitted with performance sails and folding props it matches the Discovery even upwind and outperforms at all other angles. A 110 degree tacking angle (including leeway)measured by the track on the chartplotter.

4) much less seasickness. I had a friend who had to give up cruising when one of their children was prone to serious seasickness n their monohull.

5) better safety. You really can’t flip a heavy cruising cat like you can a carbon fiber high performance cat. If you hit something at sea, only one hull floods - the boat will not sink. Safety of two engines and two rudders.

6) Two hulls make for much better privacy for a family or guests. It’s easy to “get away” from others for a while.

7) much more room for tankage, watermakers, large beds, washer/dryers, clothes, stores. Can handle a larger dinghy which will be important with kids.

8) These are very seaworthy boats. Many Leopards are delivered on their own bottom from Cape Town.

Owned 6 monos and 1 cat and the clear winner is (for this captain)....Da Cat. very good post.

[Eagle ITA]

Originally Posted by Indecenseas

That is definitely now on the list of must sees and I'll see if I can get on one! They seem like unicorns on the market though. Most likely have to be custom ordered I suppose?? If so that would be out of the ball park in terms of what we are willing to spend for this stage of things.

If you've decided to consider alu boat as well, take a look at this:

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/201...al-55-8464363/

I never sail the 55, but I've sailed for long time on a Boreal 47, simply fantastic (at any latitude)

Anyway, you are talking about Amel54/55, Oyster 56/575, Hallberg-Rassy and so on; at this level of quality there is no one best and/or one worse, the choice becomes absolutely personal;
so heed our advice, but then think carefully about what your needs are and choose the one that best suits you...
...not us

[chubby]

Originally Posted by chubby

if this were me...
i'd add any Dashew designed sundeer or kelly archer to my list... a bit more lenght at waterline.. but safer(relatively easy to sail short handed) and probably more comfortable under sail than anything else on your list.


not sure if its still on the market.. but there was an alumninum hull Dashew for sale in Los Angelos for more or less your budget.

this the alu dashew that is(was) for sale in socal... (pretty sure current owner was seeking <$1M now)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrDxYkSI710

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by category4jay

Well never say never future Captain. Just a quick question. Have you and "the Boss" gone to a boat show and stepped onboard some boats (cats included)?
Best of Luck in your search!

Oh yea for sure, I mean we definitely like them, just not really what we want right now.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I owned a Discovery 55 but now have a 50ft Leopard cat, while the Discovery was a wonderful boat (my favorite monohull out of six owned) I feel qualified arguing the cat point.

Much of the talk you see about cats are from people looking for high speed. I understand the appeal but I prefer cruising at 8 knots to the noise, discomfort, fatigue, and risk of higher speed. My Discovery and Leopard average almost exactly the same day’s run (180 NM)

Cat advantages

1) 7ft+ draft is very limiting in many places you’d like to go.

2) The comfort at sea and especially at anchor is much better - little rolling in harbor or downwind at sea. Much easier for children.

3) outfitted with performance sails and folding props it matches the Discovery even upwind and outperforms at all other angles. A 110 degree tacking angle (including leeway)measured by the track on the chartplotter.

4) much less seasickness. I had a friend who had to give up cruising when one of their children was prone to serious seasickness n their monohull.

5) better safety. You really can’t flip a heavy cruising cat like you can a carbon fiber high performance cat. If you hit something at sea, only one hull floods - the boat will not sink. Safety of two engines and two rudders.

6) Two hulls make for much better privacy for a family or guests. It’s easy to “get away” from others for a while.

7) much more room for tankage, watermakers, large beds, washer/dryers, clothes, stores. Can handle a larger dinghy which will be important with kids.

8) These are very seaworthy boats. Many Leopards are delivered on their own bottom from Cape Town.

That's great input and I am following your point, makes sense. We've talked about it at length and have both figured that we maybe would see ourselves on one later down the line. For now, our slip won't accomodate and our summer mooring will but only for summer. It gets a little tricky for us because we both learned on monohulls and both prefer them in terms of sailing experience... we like gettin' on that lean!

I think with our first series of major crossings and list of first destinations, it probably will be okay for us with a monohull even though a cat would be more comfortable anchoring near surf spots...

We both feel as our family grows and we get a better idea about where we want to spend most of our time, it is possible we would switch over to a cat haha... the "dark side" as I hear folks call it.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by category4jay

Owned 6 monos and 1 cat and the clear winner is (for this captain)....Da Cat. very good post.

Yes I thought so too! also your signature reference to Costa Rica is awesome!

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by chubby

this the alu dashew that is(was) for sale in socal... (pretty sure current owner was seeking <$1M now)

Very intriguing, Although much too large for us.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Eagle ITA

If you've decided to consider alu boat as well, take a look at this:

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/201...al-55-8464363/

I never sail the 55, but I've sailed for long time on a Boreal 47, simply fantastic (at any latitude)

Anyway, you are talking about Amel54/55, Oyster 56/575, Hallberg-Rassy and so on; at this level of quality there is no one best and/or one worse, the choice becomes absolutely personal;
so heed our advice, but then think carefully about what your needs are and choose the one that best suits you...
...not us

You know, my knee jerk reaction is that I don't particularly understand the interior layout, however I like it, I just don't think I would choose it, if that makes sense. Sail plan seems rad though!

And good word. Yea we've benefited from everyone's inputs and made plans to go check out a few more boats we wouldn't have considered. I still feel like the Amel 54 and Oyster 56 or similar are our top pics so far but we sat down and decided we for sure need to get time under sail on each.

[tony robinson]

I went through exactly this same search in 2012. I considered and Oyster 56, a Moody 54, a Discovery 55 and an Amel 54. I ended up buying an Amel 54 and kept her for 8 years. My decision was based on several factors - the ketch rig turned out to be a huge plus as it made single handing much easier (the sails are smaller). I also had many more sail options and frequently didn't bother with the mainsail as she would sail upwind with the genny and mizzen very easily. The comfort level is astounding - Amel 54's even come with a dishwasher (which I rarely used but Amel claimed it used less water than doing dishes by hand, which I doubted).

Other pluses include the huge engine room under the cockpit floor and the separate washer and drier - important with a new born. All the gear you need is fitted as standard. To my surprise, I found the most useful bit of kit was the water maker. I heard they were a pain to maintain but not so. Downsides are the complexity of the systems aboard - you have to carry a LOT of spares, but after sales service from Amel in La Rochelle is superb. I could go on but the Amel owners forum is an excellent place for more questuons. AWR.

[Prevail]

Passport was mentioned as an older option. I have a 2019 545 CC and understand 2 other are currently being built. They have a line that includes everything from 40’s to 47 to 515 aft & center cockpit and are still being built by a US company based in Annapolis. Whether new or used it’s a big advantage to have access to the builder who has been and continues to be very responsive to questions parts etc…. These are go anywhere boats that are well built & beautifully finished. It may not be for you but you should at least see one before making your decision.