Amel, Oyster, Discovery...Our lengthy search continues

[Indecenseas]

Hi all,

Well, my soon to be wife/baby maker and I, are interested in the community's thoughts on choice live-aboards in the 50ft range that can make major crossings and provide full time comfort. Our search has been dragging on and so we joined this forum to start getting input and thoughts from more experienced folks. We have been looking for a sailboat in the 50ft range that we can cruise on for extended periods of time with friends and gear. Something capable and safe for ocean crossings and long periods of time aboard is a must. Safety is paramount for us as we will be popping out some little humans in the next couple years and I really don't want to sink. We will be further developing our sailing abilities on both small and large boats before heading out to go cruising full time (seasonally, not year round)...even though we both have some experience sailing dinghy's and 40 footers. I figure once we find a boat it will still take a year or two getting it ready most likely before we can depart, depending on the vessel.

So far our search has produced a few options. We've never sailed on an Amel 54 or an Oyster 56 but those are top contenders for us at the moment. So is a Hallberg-Rassy. Usually in the $500k-$750k US price range. We have expanded our search and budget to include potentially a Discovery 58 or an Amel 55 or Oyster 575. Very few options available in the States, where financing is easiest for us.

I'm very interested in your experience cruising monohulls and what vessels have a great reputation for safety and shorthanded sailing.

Best Regards

[shimari]

I believe financing in the US only requires the boat be registered with the USCG. You can certainly buy a boat in Europe and register her right away with the USCG. We did. You might want to confirm with a few finance companies if you can finance the purchase outside the US if you register with the USCG.

The boats you're looking for will be much easier to find outside the US.

Also be aware that once you cross the 50' length, slips and mooring balls become much more difficult to find.

[Muaddib1116]

Baby maker? You sound charming...

Regardless, it seems like you have a very healthy budget. All the boats you mentioned are perfectly capable of what you want, at that price/quality level it's really about picking the boat with the features you want, aesthetics, layouts, technical idiosyncrasies, etc.

If comfort is a big priority, I would pay special attention to hull shapes. The newer Amels (55 and 50) have much flatter hull bottoms that tend to slam a lot upwind. The older 54, which is basically the same as the Super Maramu, has a more forgiving shape. Most of the 50-60ft Oysters in that price range have excellent hull shapes also. I think Discovery went out of business before they could adopt the super flat bottoms that some builders have recently gone to. Again, Hallberg Rassys in the size and price you're looking at will be pretty good in that regard.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by shimari

I believe financing in the US only requires the boat be registered with the USCG. You can certainly buy a boat in Europe and register her right away with the USCG. We did. You might want to confirm with a few finance companies if you can finance the purchase outside the US if you register with the USCG.

The boats you're looking for will be much easier to find outside the US.

Also be aware that once you cross the 50' length, slips and mooring balls become much more difficult to find.

Nice! Thanks, that's great info. Was getting an approved survey an issue for you? Thats been convoluted so far for us.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Baby maker? You sound charming...

She actually finds it hilarious... even more so now that you've input a criticism about what is commonly an endearing term in the states and called Amel 55 "flat". You're the only person I've heard say an Amel 55 would pound upwind.

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by Indecenseas

She actually finds it hilarious... even more so now that you've input a criticism about what is commonly an endearing term in the states and called Amel 55 "flat". You're the only person I've heard say an Amel 55 would pound upwind.

Well, perhaps in a different part of the states than I'm from.

As far as Amels, the Amel 55 was a relatively big step towards a more modern design from a brand that was known for not adopting new trends just because they're trendy. The 50 was an even bigger step. My knowledge is primarily about the 50, but from what I've seen the 55 seems similar enough. The 50's have a very flat hull shape, very similar to some Beneteaus I've seen. I have a friend that's run an Amel 50 for 5 years and brought it from Europe when new. They crossed west from Portugal straight to New England, pounding upwind the whole way. He reports that it slams a lot going upwind. There was also an Amel 50 that cracked the side windows of the cabin trunk after a couple days pounding upwind in 35-40kts. Certainly shitty conditions, but for a boat brand that's regarded as tank-like in build quality, not impressive.

As another point of interest, the Amel 50 my friend runs settles quite a bit when put up on the hard. A lot of doors and cabinets jam because the hull flexes enough. Many boats do this. But a lot of high quality boats don't. My point overall, is that my recommendation for Amels ends at the 54.

[Fore and Aft]

Indecenseas what about a Bavaria C45, that link below is for one in Texas. I surveyed a C45 here in Australia yesterday and there is loads of room I thought. She was easy to handle and very well built. I would have thought it was a perfect sized couples/family yacht.
We are five posts in, and no one's chimed in about the Titanic sinking so I will be the first. Not sinking has nothing to do with size, your own ability is the most important factor.
Cheers
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/97064

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Well, perhaps in a different part of the states than I'm from.

As far as Amels, the Amel 55 was a relatively big step towards a more modern design from a brand that was known for not adopting new trends just because they're trendy. The 50 was an even bigger step. My knowledge is primarily about the 50, but from what I've seen the 55 seems similar enough. The 50's have a very flat hull shape, very similar to some Beneteaus I've seen. I have a friend that's run an Amel 50 for 5 years and brought it from Europe when new. They crossed west from Portugal straight to New England, pounding upwind the whole way. He reports that it slams a lot going upwind. There was also an Amel 50 that cracked the side windows of the cabin trunk after a couple days pounding upwind in 35-40kts. Certainly shitty conditions, but for a boat brand that's regarded as tank-like in build quality, not impressive.

As another point of interest, the Amel 50 my friend runs settles quite a bit when put up on the hard. A lot of doors and cabinets jam because the hull flexes enough. Many boats do this. But a lot of high quality boats don't. My point overall, is that my recommendation for Amels ends at the 54.

Ah yes I see, could very well be one of those differences in lingo from East coast and West coast variations in satire. I like my boats to ride like my humor, dry. ha.

Thats very interesting about the Amel 50, I'm not very familiar with those and haven't looked at them much yet. From what I have seen/heard so far the Amel 55 is a really good hull from them and I even prefer the ketch. I think they sold 69, right up there with Oyster's 56' selling 75 units...However, I do often hear that their 54, rides much better and sails significantly worse upwind. Having never sailed on those yet I wouldn't know.

The Discovery seems to be a spade rudder, not my favorite and the HR 57 is a twin rudder like all Oyster's now...

Personally, this is enough to dictate the heavy leaning toward older used boats that have skeg hung rudders.

[shimari]

Originally Posted by Indecenseas

Nice! Thanks, that's great info. Was getting an approved survey an issue for you? Thats been convoluted so far for us.

It will probably depend on your insurance company and the age of the boat.

Ours is a 2018, and our insurance companies (we had UK insurance for 4 months while we kept her in the UK for refit and awaiting shipping) were fine with a UK survey.

I have heard of some insurance companies requiring a US surveyor to ensure the boat is inspected with ABYC in mind. Fortunately, ours did not require that.

Best to find a good insurance broker in the country you'll be buying and then one in the US. We were unable to get insurance from a US based company while the boat was in the UK.

Likewise find a good finance company and talk with them prior to searching in earnest.

All the boats you're looking at are solid. Discovery is bankrupt so you won't get any support, but that also will likely cause the boats to sell at a discount too.

You also may want to take a look at Outbound and Hylas boats as well.

Good luck!

[Muaddib1116]

I'd steer clear of the latest gen HRs and oysters, just based on their hull profiles. The 2000s and early 2010 designs are the best from them, in my opinion. Pretty sure the discovery 55 has a skeg hung rudder, not sure about their newer models after the joined with southerly.

Hylas makes beautiful boats, but again, I would steer clear of their most recent models.

It really depends on what you consider sailing upwind well means. If it means a pounding ride but you can point higher, make less leeway, and go faster because you have less wetted surface area, then yeah, the 54 is not as good. But if comfort is important, I bet it's better. My boat has a fuller hull shape than the Amel 50, and my boat definitely slams in certain conditions. But when I look at the 2000s oysters at my boatyard, their hullshapes at the bow have even more belly.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Indecenseas what about a Bavaria C45, that link below is for one in Texas. I surveyed a C45 here in Australia yesterday and there is loads of room I thought. She was easy to handle and very well built. I would have thought it was a perfect sized couples/family yacht.
We are five posts in, and no one's chimed in about the Titanic sinking so I will be the first. Not sinking has nothing to do with size, your own ability is the most important factor.
Cheers
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/97064

Thanks Fore and Aft. I'll look into it. I really just assumed those were more "coastal" cruisers so to say.

haha Titanic references always welcome in my book. Usually worth a chuckle. For us size is more about room, not sinking seems a combination of ones own ability and also construction. The Amel 55 has many watertight bulkheads and each door is also another... Not sure if I prefer the Amel yet but I do like additional watertight bulkheads and solid construction practices.

Back when I was in the US Navy we somehow always seemed to hit partially submerged debris at night... tree logs, shipping containers, trash pucks from other ships that didn't sink...all sorts of weird stuff. Not much can be done about that besides starting out with the best possibly constructed boat and then having good contingencies.

A solid build vessel will definitely help us all sleep better.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I'd steer clear of the latest gen HRs and oysters, just based on their hull profiles. The 2000s and early 2010 designs are the best from them, in my opinion. Pretty sure the discovery 55 has a skeg hung rudder, not sure about their newer models after the joined with southerly.

Hylas makes beautiful boats, but again, I would steer clear of their most recent models.

It really depends on what you consider sailing upwind well means. If it means a pounding ride but you can point higher, make less leeway, and go faster because you have less wetted surface area, then yeah, the 54 is not as good. But if comfort is important, I bet it's better. My boat has a fuller hull shape than the Amel 50, and my boat definitely slams in certain conditions. But when I look at the 2000s oysters at my boatyard, their hullshapes at the bow have even more belly.

Okay good word, thanks! Ya all things to consider for sure. I would say that for us at the end of the day safety, comfort and versatility will be more important than speed or performance. Likely even if that means going older and doing a lot more repairs and refitting to start.

[Mickeyrouse]

They’re not building many sailboats these days, but a Hinckley 52 would fit your needs to a T. Immaculately built, incredibly seaworthy, and a real head-turner dockside. An older 52 would be in your budget. And “ older” just mans getting better all the time.

[Lee Jerry]

Originally Posted by Indecenseas

So far our search has produced a few options. We've never sailed on an Amel 54 or an Oyster 56 but those are top contenders for us at the moment. So is a Hallberg-Rassy. Usually in the $500k-$750k US price range. We have expanded our search and budget to include potentially a Discovery 58 or an Amel 55 or Oyster 575. Very few options available in the States, where financing is easiest for us.

You don't say where you are in the US, but there are quite a few boats available in the Caribbean. You hinted at the West Coast, so maybe that doesn't help much, but still closer than Europe.

As for the boat, you seem to have a pretty good handle on the "good ones" (Oyster, HR, etc.) But a few comments, mostly not previously mentioned:
Hylas 54 would suit well. Not sure why someone poo-pooed the newer ones, but I don't think they would fit your budget anyway, even the 48 which looks pretty nice.
Tayana, older but 52, 55 and 58 (maybe others) all semi-custom.
Passport
Little Harbor, also older but nice and well built
Baltic
Deerfoot
Southerly
Perry
Swan
Lyman-Morse
Morris
Najad (even more Euro based, so unlikely to find here)

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse

They’re not building many sailboats these days, but a Hinckley 52 would fit your needs to a T. Immaculately built, incredibly seaworthy, and a real head-turner dockside. An older 52 would be in your budget. And “ older” just mans getting better all the time.

Ah yes, good boats for sure but hard to find.