An old lady who can show me a good time!

[simonkn8574]

Hi everyone,
i'm new to sailing and the forum and therefore feel out of my comfort zone when looking for the above!

I only have a £4k-£7k budget and would like a seaworthy 8m(ish) cruiser that will teach me the ropes in a gentle fashion but might (wishful thinking perhaps) have the stamina to stay with me long enough to tackle longer passages over to the EU Continent. i'm UK based BTW!

People usually suggest that if you can "just afford to spend £xyz pounds, then you'll have a really nice one" but you end up way out of budget like that. With the modest budget in mind i'm realistic enough to realise she will be of a certain age, but therefore cheap to insure and will show the real costs of ownership/maintenance.

Being new to this, it's not like cars/planes or even horses where I have a knowledge of makes/models/breeds to go for or stay away from. At present i'm guided by looks and gleaned info about true seaworthiness/build quality. So far this has thrown up Ecume de Mer, Westerly Centaur and Offshore 8.

Any other makes or models to add to/remove from, the "go see" list?

Thanks all - its a generic question and therefore a nightmare to 'search' for on any forum.

Kind regards

Simon

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Simon.

[JJ77]

Hello Simon,

There are whole tribes sailing in Folkboats in Holland&Scandinavia,pretty sure there are some on your side too.

here is one;
http://nl.yachtworld.com/boten/1996/...nigdkoninkrijk

EDIT;here is a list from across the Atlantic;
http://www.atomvoyages.com/planning/...oats-list.html

small "voyaging" boats.

Cheers,
JJ

[SailFastTri]

The sunset is just a beautiful from the cockpit of a small and simple boat as from a megayacht.

Find a small and simple boat -- but keep in mind that ongoing costs for remediation and upkeep/storage might be more important than the purchase price.

[David_Old_Jersey]

If you are keeping the boat in Bristol a "hop" accross to the continent (you are also in the EU!) not such an easy / quick trip as on Southcoast (let alone from over here!)......therefore the boats you are looking at will need to be capable of taking some cr#ppy weather as won't always be able to pick the ideal. IMO the boats you suggested would do the trick (subject to condition and Skipper / Crew). None of them would make a trip to the continent from your location a no brainer, but IMO none of them require fingers crossed either!

Am not familiar with Bristol (or much of England!), but am aware there are some tides around there. Therefore one thing you need to consider is where you will moor her as that will dictate keels (if floating in a Marina or otherwise floating 24/7 a fin is ok, if drying out then Bilge Keels needed, or possibly legs if fairly proctected). The main downside to a Marina is cost (plus IMO somewhat characterless! - albeit others differ on that view). the downside to a drying mooring is not so conveniant, possible harder to come by (depends on location) - but upside is that cost very likely to be far lower. FWIW, I live in the mud over here .

I mention the above as will dictate the vessel you can choose (Centaur is of course a B/k - Ecume De Mer is only a fin (I beleive).....in practice a B/k will have less choices - but IMO more than enough, especially if budget dictates something from 70's (or earlier).


The "Trick" is of course buying a good one (or one that is good enough for you - budget to fix / upgrade in skills, money and time.....bearing in mind that 90% plus of what you put in won't be coming back upon resale - even if makes a sale easier).....in practice your choice will also be limited to simply what is available at the time in a good enough condition for you. My advice is to keep a fairly open mind on what model, save for being good enough for the tasks you require (always remembering that likely most of her use will be near home port).

If you have not stumbled accross the archive of Yachtsnet (UK Yacht Brokers), then worth a looksee.

Archive boat data from Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales

If a fin is on your agenda, then have a looksee at a Halycon 27 or an Invicta 26 (cheaper than a Contessa 26 and from the same era) A Wing 25 and a Sabre 27 are in the same ballpark. But could do a lot worse than a Centaur, looks not to everyone's taste! but they sail better than they look.....albeit with your budget a nice one would be a stretch, but they come in all conditions!

E-bay also has some interesting looking stuff on from time to time, plus simply wondering around locally (relocating a boat is expensive in time and money - especially a new purchase, as they are never quite right for you, your first voyage is fairly major and doing stuff away from home and with deadlines is a PITA).

Anyway, am now off down the boat - to do some varnishing (on boats there is always something!).

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by simonkn8574

Hi everyone,
i'm new to sailing and the forum and therefore feel out of my comfort zone when looking for the above!

I only have a £4k-£7k budget and would like a seaworthy 8m(ish) cruiser that will teach me the ropes in a gentle fashion but might (wishful thinking perhaps) have the stamina to stay with me long enough to tackle longer passages over to the EU Continent. i'm UK based BTW!

People usually suggest that if you can "just afford to spend £xyz pounds, then you'll have a really nice one" but you end up way out of budget like that. With the modest budget in mind i'm realistic enough to realise she will be of a certain age, but therefore cheap to insure and will show the real costs of ownership/maintenance.

Being new to this, it's not like cars/planes or even horses where I have a knowledge of makes/models/breeds to go for or stay away from. At present i'm guided by looks and gleaned info about true seaworthiness/build quality. So far this has thrown up Ecume de Mer, Westerly Centaur and Offshore 8.

Any other makes or models to add to/remove from, the "go see" list?

Thanks all - its a generic question and therefore a nightmare to 'search' for on any forum.

Kind regards

Simon

Westerly Centaur.
Lots built so plenty of folks that can give specific advice
Right size and price
Twin keel so built for the UK tides.

CENTAUR 26 (WESTERLY) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
Westerly Centaur - boats for sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk

[Celestialsailor]

Welcome Simon. Ditto on the Westerly. I know some of those are in your area.

[simonkn8574]

Cheers everyone,
I thought that ongoing maintenance would be a majority of the costs... I can paint/varnish and basic DIY type fixes myself so not afraid of a do-up-job... I am hoping to base it in Bristol Marina as this can be easily reached from where I live however I have seen some really cheap moorings in the mud down river!

Oh and I completely admit to beginning with tours of the Bristol channel.. The "across the channel" bit is a long way off... just thinking it would be nice to keep the same vessel for a few years....

Right, will be looking at all your links.. cheers everyone again.. keep the names coming in if you have another suggestions..

Simon

[David_Old_Jersey]

Cheers for coming back (it doesn't always happen!).....I would have a chat to the Marina before seriously looking let alone buying - both on cost and availability. Same for the mud!.....one thing I forget to mention is that can of course also have non marina permanently floating moorings - just no idea if those are available (due to the tides) in your area.

Oh, and on the Marina - also worth checking if the Marina is gated (too keep the water in when the tide goes out!) nothing wrong with that, but not having 24/7 access is something to keep in mind when deciding which works best for you.

Whilst I am on a roll!......thinking further on your budget, depending on how you intend to use the boat (whether mostly for actual sailing or also for a lot of sitting onboard, whether of a day, for a weekend or longer - that is all part of the craic, just the focus is different for everyone) might want to consider one of these (a Newbridge Corribee):-





That one is currently for sale, at £3k - asking (but maybe a bit far away for you!).

21 ft sailing vessel - Boats & Marine Vehicles - Jersey Insight

Corribee Owners Association « The Unified Corribee Website



Smaller than your 8m, at 20' 9" (errr, around 6 1/2 metres?) but on your budget you could get a very nice one, whether bought as or made into.....and still have change left over!

Obviously a few compromises to make over something larger (mainly around her being smaller!) - but they are pretty . and in my book that compensates for a few deficiencies elsewhere. Probably why boats are called "she"..........

Whilst a couple have been transat and Dame Ellen Macarthur took hers around the UK (before she got famous!) and even our Phil (Boatman61) has taken his down to Portugal (and lives aboard her! - between yacht deliveries) I won't claim that she is the ideal long distance / long term liveaboard boat.........but great fun to sail and will take pretty good care of you. I had one!

Lots built, and they came in both fin and B/k versions, and legs can be fitted to the fin keelers, they were to mine (performance is meant to be about the same) - and they seem to sell anywhere from £1k (ropey! and basic) to £5k (very nice), at least those are asking prices. And being small could get trailored or onto the back of a lorry far easier than something bigger - whether to bring her home to Bristol, or down to the Med!

Further disclosure! - that one above was mine! - I sold her 10 (15?) years back for £3k - had a few owners since, not all of them kind , she later sold for ZERO (I missed her by a week!), then for £1k before ending up with the current Owner who during his 5 or 6 years has put a lot of care and effort into her (plus some cash) making her very nice (again)......I know because she is moored 100 metres away from me!....and over here being nosey is a lifestyle thing........

[simonkn8574]

David,
Wow, she really is a beauty... Hmmm.. I wonder...... (grin)
Just going back to the Ecume de Mer. I've been watching this one in Jersey for ages as it appears to be the one that YachtNet.com uses as it's Ecume De Mer example... Have you seen it around??

1974 Ecume de Mer 26 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

So, Corribee... as you say, she really has a special look about her doesn't she?!
oh, while I think about it... I have my thoughts on the Westerly Centaur.. Useful, practical and safe. But is she 'sexy' enough.? What about the Westerly GK24? Now theres a pretty craft.


Simon K

[barnakiel]

Look up Contessa 26.

It is a copy of the Folkboat.

They sail well.

b.

[barnakiel]

BTW you can get an inexpensive boat in a warm place and use it throughout the year.

If you go this way, you must include a couple of Ryanair tickets to UK and back (normally less than EUR 100 return) in your business plan.

Cheers,
b.
Canary Islands ...

[simonkn8574]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

If you go this way, you must include a couple of Ryanair tickets to UK and back (normally less than EUR 100 return) in your business plan.

hehe... Got that covered Boss - i'm easyJet crew... 30 Euro return to europe!!
Gotta have some perks!!! But a great idea worth persuing!!!!


sk

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by simonkn8574

David,
Wow, she really is a beauty... Hmmm.. I wonder...... (grin)
Just going back to the Ecume de Mer. I've been watching this one in Jersey for ages as it appears to be the one that YachtNet.com uses as it's Ecume De Mer example... Have you seen it around??

1974 Ecume de Mer 26 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I think the Jersey broker simply "borrowed" that one photo from Yachtsnet as I don't recognise the headland, and the pic has been cropped to remove the bit where the yachtsnet logo went.

The in harbour photo is real though (different harbour than me - so I don't know her well or the owner) - not sure about the interior photos, likely they are real - but no guarantee or even on when taken.



Am pretty sure she has been for sale now for a couple of years and that price has already dropped (maybe a couple?) - personally I would start at a couple of K and see how it goes from there, yer never know might be the case of "I just want her gone". Albeit I don't know whether she has been used much during that time (boats like to be used) so possible might need some time / cash on her before heading off to the UK (she might also need a LOT of time / cash!).

The boat would be a difficult sell over here (leaving aside that very little is moving at the moment) as she lives in a wooden cradle on a drying mooring. That approach is a bit too different / old school for many, nowadays (with her fin keel) she would be a Marina based boat and that would cost IRO £3k a year vs around £500 where she is (albeit plus mooring chains and the cradle up keep).....but for a Marina boat that annual cost is kinda out of proportion to her value (over half?!), if someone can afford that per year then odds are strong they can afford (and want?) something "better", or at least more expensive.

Obviously the main problem you have with her is that Bristol is a long way away! Given your comments I would suggest not bringing her "home" yourself as a first trip - so factor in the cost of a Delivery Skipper (if you don't know anyone who would do the job for beer and the craic), but the upside is that if you went along would be a great learning experiance.

In addition, she is likely not VAT paid either - but she could be, if you got serious (BTW I am not on commission! nor trying to push the boat!) then we could swap a couple of PM's on that side.

[simonkn8574]

Ahh David... a Star!

ok, open to anyone then, unless you have any thoughts David... What would be the cost of a deliver skipper (assuming i'd come along for the "ride" to pay ancillaries)

AND

i'd seen the "Not VAT registered bit..." Am I simply adding 20% to the price paid then? i.e., £5000 +£1000 VAT? Is it that simple or is there a hidden cost somewhere?

Thanks again for some VERY helpful tips and advice..
SK