Any advantages of Wing Keels ?

[PHK1]

hi - i am looking at a Sabre 362 - most seem to have wing keels. Seems only advantage of them is shallow draft. Are there any advantages relating to sailing performance on or off the wind including downwind. I know a few degrees is lost pointing and have read some of the previous discussions on the Forum. Tx.

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by PHK1

hi - i am looking at a Sabre 362 - most seem to have wing keels. Seems only advantage of them is shallow draft. Are there any advantages relating to sailing performance on or off the wind including downwind. I know a few degrees is lost pointing and have read some of the previous discussions on the Forum. Tx.

I can see the attraction of wing keels if you are going to be sailing in skinny water a lot. But that same skinny water makes it more likely that you will ground out (whatever your draft) and therein IMO lies the problem. If you ground out with a wing keel it is reportedly much more difficult to get off. You have two things working against you 1. Greater surface area creating greater friction/suction to the sea bed, and 2. You can't heel the boat to reduce draft.

~A

[Paul L]

A Sabre 362 PHRF rating is about 117 with a wing keel and 105 without (and 114 with a centerboard).
So you are giving up 12 seconds a mile for the wing keel. Wing keeled boats are much faster than deep keels that are stuck in the mud.

[sogin]

Originally Posted by PHK1

hi - i am looking at a Sabre 362 - most seem to have wing keels. Seems only advantage of them is shallow draft. Are there any advantages relating to sailing performance on or off the wind including downwind. I know a few degrees is lost pointing and have read some of the previous discussions on the Forum. Tx.

If you do run aground, leaning the boat will not reduce draft like it would on a conventional keel and more importantly leaning the boat to reduce draft increases the likelihood of bending a "keel wing".

[lvictorlucas]

Also if you sail in the south you will catch a lot more crab pots.

[Ardbeg]

I had one and got rid of it. I found it slipped too much when sailing to wind ie. It did not point well and slipped degrees as I was sailing. Had to compensate all the time. Never again. Also did not feel as stable in a blow. I agree with other comments about wedging off as well.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "Are there any advantages relating to sailing performance..."

Not so that a cruising man would notice. Just stuff for the gung-ho racing crowd to think about. S'long as you always keep a foot or two of water under your keel, you'll not notice that the keel has wings :-)!

TrentePieds

[skipmac]

As noted, some advantage, some disadvantage.

Advantage, better upwind performance than the same boat with the same draft without wings. How much? Enough that it won an America's cup years back. Is it enough to matter for a cruiser? Depends on your preferences and criteria.

Disadvantage, running aground.
- tends to stick tighter in the mud
- heeling the boat does not reduce draft to help get off.
- more susceptible to damage.

If a great deal on a boat you love I wouldn't call it a deal breaker but overall would rather go without the wing.

[Calif.Ted]

I've only sailed a couple wings because they are not desirous on the west coast, but if someone hadn't TOLD me it was a wing I don't think I'd have noticed the difference.

[ob44]

Originally Posted by Ardbeg

I had one and got rid of it. I found it slipped too much when sailing to wind ie. It did not point well and slipped degrees as I was sailing. Had to compensate all the time. Never again. Also did not feel as stable in a blow. I agree with other comments about wedging off as well.

That's interesting. The original winged keel on Australia II was designed to improve windward performance by generating lift. As that technology "trickled down," however, we see boats with stubby keels with hunks of not-so-hydrodynamically shaped lead fastened on. Not surprising that they are less efficient than fin keels.

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by PHK1

Are there any advantages relating to sailing performance on or off the wind including downwind.

No (IMHO)

Winged keels became 'all the rage' after the '83 America's Cup when the Aussies kicked our butt winning 3 races in succession in the 7-races series, after being down 3-1. But to the best of my knowledge, it was never shown that the radical and controversial winged keel was the deciding factor. However the recreational market didn't care, and manufacturers began producing winged keel boats because it sold boats / that's what buyers wanted.

The winged keel's short comings are already spelled out by others in the thread. However, were it me, I would not, 'not' buy a cruising boat I liked just because it had a winged keel. I'd just be more cautious in 'skinny' water for any uncharted thin spots.

[jewt]

They will keep your boat upright while you await Towboats

Saw several in the ICW North of Charleston .

[ChrisJD]

I have a Sabre 402 with a wing keel, not by specific choice, just because that's what the boat we ended up buying had. It saves us a good deal of worry in some of the shallower spots in and around Buzzard's Bay - and at our marina, where with a deep draft keel we'd really only be able to make it into the dock at high tide - but as Ardberg suggests, you definitely give up some pointing ability compared to the deeper fin, and no, there aren't any ways in which the sailing performance of a shallower wing keel is better than the sailing performance of a deeper fin keel. If you'll be racing, those few degrees will be a killer. If you'll be cruising, they can still be an annoyance, but we've been okay with the tradeoff.

All things being equal, if I could wave a magic wand and turn my boat into the deeper fin keel version, I'd do it.

[n5ama]

When the water level drops below the hull bottom, the boat sits nice and steady at the slip.

Ask me how I know

[Hudson Force]

'beats a CQR for holding in mud and clay!