Any input truly appreciated..

[Lazerbrains]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The few Gulfstars I’m familiar with aren’t great sailing boats, nor do I believe they were meant to be, they are motorsailors and from what I have seen provide a lot of livability for the price.
I’ve not sailed a ketch myself, but believe above a certain sized boat that they make a lot of sense. especially for single handing.
I would avoid teak decks myself.

The early ones were motorsailors, but the later models are quite well regarded - especially the 50, 44, and 37. In fact, the 44 makes the list of the "9 best used cruising sailboats" by John Kretschmer. The 50 is quite a nice cruising boat.

[KP44]

The first thing I did on our Kelley-Peterson was remove the teak decks. There was a cored deck underneath the teak and I found no rot. So I filled all the little screw holes and put down 5 layers of 17 ounce bi-axial cloth with west system epoxy. The deck is nearly "hull strength" and no more worries about leaks or rot. It turned a "leaky teaky" into an excellent boat.

[KP44]

We made an offer on a 50' Gulfstar, before we bought the Kelley-Peterson. Nearly identical layout and more room on the Gulfstar.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by hic ego qui...

I started sailing at a young age. Firstly on dinghies, then on 420 and 470. Later on on Hobies.

...Preferably sloop rigged. Suitable for a crew of maximum 4 with the possibility to accommodate guests sometimes. After month and month of shopping around. I came to like following boats.

1. 1991 Jeanneau Sunkiss 47
2. 1971 Le Comte Fastnet 45 ( really drawn to this boat )
3. 1980 Gulfstar 50' ( little worried about the ketch rig, never sailed it)
4. 1976 Plaver Sciarelli 49'( ketch rig as well )
5. 1982 Lafiite 44' ( the teak worries me quite a bit)

Hey Ollie,

Look at your own pedigree. You started out sailing on boats that sail well and fast. Any wonder why you're "drawn to" the Le Comte? (Just a hint.)

Dispense with the ketches (plus I confirm what a64pilot said; the Gulfstars are motorsailors; if you did not dislike her initially, you'd grow to dislike her - she's not your type of gal).

By process of elimination (for the various reasons listed above) and
hey presto! You're left with the.... Le Compte!

[DDabs]

another vote for the Fastnet 45. flush deck club! <3

[dfelsent]

Just to add to the variety of opinions.
Don’t dismiss ketches. They are not scary.

The extra sail area doesn’t do much good upwind. At all. Off the wind oh yeah. Mizzen staysail and all. Fast.

The split rig has significant advantages in short handed sailing with individual sails being smaller, and jib and jigger working well when it’s not very nice weather.

As well, the mizzen mast is a great place for for radar and wind gen, and the mizzen boom is a fantastic crane for heaving up outboards, dinghies, batteries, and other heavy stuff.

And when dropping the jib or main or anchoring or picking up a mooring that mizzen keeps you pointed up wind.
My routine is furl the jib heading downwind while blanketing it with the main. Crank in on the mizzen sheet, turn up wind. Drop and furl the main. Start or put the engine in gear, head for the inner harbor.

A ketch is definitely more stuff to manage (and pay for) but has advantages.

Best wishes for whatever you settle on!

[Jim Cate]

Look at your own pedigree. You started out sailing on boats that sail well and fast. Any wonder why you're "drawn to" the Le Comte? (Just a hint.)

While I've long thought that the Le Compte 45 was a very handsome boat and likely has good sea manners, compared to the Jeanneau, it isn't fast. PHRF ratings are 111 vs around 60-70 (depending on exactly which version is involved). That's a huge difference, likely driven by the LC's rather short LWL and higher displacement.

This doesn't mean that the LC is a dog, but especially in light airs and downwind in a blow, the J will be considerably quicker.

Jim

[LLCoolDave]

The lefitte you listed has its teak decks screwed on from the top. Only the first couple were done from the bottom. If you look at the deck pic you can see teak bungs everywhere.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

While I've long thought that the Le Compte 45 was a very handsome boat and likely has good sea manners, compared to the Jeanneau, it isn't fast. PHRF ratings are 111 vs around 60-70 (depending on exactly which version is involved). That's a huge difference, likely driven by the LC's rather short LWL and higher displacement.

This doesn't mean that the LC is a dog, but especially in light airs and downwind in a blow, the J will be considerably quicker.

Jim

My bad. I thought the Le Compte was faster and sailed better.

Maybe the answer ought to be "none of the above" and "keep on looking"?

[hic ego qui...]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrains

The early ones were motorsailors, but the later models are quite well regarded - especially the 50, 44, and 37. In fact, the 44 makes the list of the "9 best used cruising sailboats" by John Kretschmer. The 50 is quite a nice cruising boat.

I stumbled over the boat while doing my searches. As said it is located in Michigan. These boats are not very popular in Europe. So, I did my own research and learned that there is indeed a huge difference in quality when it comes to the different production years.
I kind of like the boat but have never been on one. Buying a boat in the US, however, is not that easy anymore. In particular if one wants to bring it to Europe. Besides CE certification, the VAT will be due once entering the European Union. The most affordable place of declaration would be the Azores.
Just for a matter of interest, I have attached the link to the Gulfstar I was looking into, below.

https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/1980...ketch-3473008/

[hic ego qui...]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Hey Ollie,

Look at your own pedigree. You started out sailing on boats that sail well and fast. Any wonder why you're "drawn to" the Le Comte? (Just a hint.)

Dispense with the ketches (plus I confirm what a64pilot said; the Gulfstars are motorsailors; if you did not dislike her initially, you'd grow to dislike her - she's not your type of gal).

By process of elimination (for the various reasons listed above) and
hey presto! You're left with the.... Le Compte!

Well. I have grown up a bit, too. I surely enjoyed the 420s and 470s and hobies. Speed is not all for me anymore. And yes, the Fastnet is indeed not such a fast boat. But somewhat I like classic lines.

[hic ego qui...]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

While I've long thought that the Le Compte 45 was a very handsome boat and likely has good sea manners, compared to the Jeanneau, it isn't fast. PHRF ratings are 111 vs around 60-70 (depending on exactly which version is involved). That's a huge difference, likely driven by the LC's rather short LWL and higher displacement.

This doesn't mean that the LC is a dog, but especially in light airs and downwind in a blow, the J will be considerably quicker.

Jim

Nothing against the Jeanneau. They make for a beautiful boat. Nice cockpit, great transom when at anchorage. Sure, they are not slow. But the most compelling argument against it is indeed the galley. During passage making that will be a nightmare.
However, it's always a compromise. The one I was looking at is excellently priced but does need work.

https://www.boat24.com/de/segelboote...detail/415113/

[Group9]

The Lafitte would be my pick. If the decks aren't spongy from the deck screws.

[hic ego qui...]

Dear All,

First of All. Thank you so much for all your comments. After taking all in consideration. Budget, personal liking, research and definitely your comments I have decided to get the Le Comte and the Lafitte surveyed.
The Lafitte simply intrigues me. It also seems that there is a highly active owner group out there. I have not heard anything bad about this ship unless it comes to engine access and the small cockpit. The particular one I am looking at also had the engine replaced. The Perkins was swapped for a Volvo that only outputs 41HP. Not entirely irrelevant.
About the Le Comte I can only say that she is absolutely immaculately maintained. The sail plan is simple and straight forward. Reminds me of a dinghy . Is she suitable for blue water cruising ? No idea. Hard to find anything from owners or cruisers who have outfitted a boat like that for blue water cruising. Personally, I found it easy to like the off centre companionway and felt home with the fully renovated interior.

I am looking forward to any input I can get and obviously I am always open to questions as well.

[DeValency]

If indeed the Fastnet Comte is in such a great shape, I wold recommend her. Although a less modern in the aft lines, extremely well overall design, Dutch built and a good sailer.

Check well the plumbing, tanks, skin fittings and seacocks as well as any mechanical system and component, open up all lockers and bilges and get yourself a snake video camera ($50 online) to look inside and hidden areas - if your surveyor didn’t do it already.

Old boats can hide unknown issues that are extremely expensive to repair, but good owners that were on top (and into and under and deeper) of everything all the time probably capture whatever possible. - but beware that new issues - hopefully small - will always come up.

Best of luck!

Originally Posted by hic ego qui...

Dear All,

First of All. Thank you so much for all your comments. After taking all in consideration. Budget, personal liking, research and definitely your comments I have decided to get the Le Comte and the Lafitte surveyed.
The Lafitte simply intrigues me. It also seems that there is a highly active owner group out there. I have not heard anything bad about this ship unless it comes to engine access and the small cockpit. The particular one I am looking at also had the engine replaced. The Perkins was swapped for a Volvo that only outputs 41HP. Not entirely irrelevant.
About the Le Comte I can only say that she is absolutely immaculately maintained. The sail plan is simple and straight forward. Reminds me of a dinghy . Is she suitable for blue water cruising ? No idea. Hard to find anything from owners or cruisers who have outfitted a boat like that for blue water cruising. Personally, I found it easy to like the off centre companionway and felt home with the fully renovated interior.

I am looking forward to any input I can get and obviously I am always open to questions as well.