Are Boats Really This Fragile? Avoiding Costly Mistakes in the Future -New Boat Owner

[person]

Purchased a CS 33 (Canadian Sailcraft) which was in good condition 6 months ago, but after taking it out only 4, maybe 5 or so times, when I last tried to start it, the engine wouldn't start, and further investigation revealed milky white oil and the engine had experienced hydrolock, and I am now looking at purchasing a new engine.

Some context: Engine had low engine hours, and the boat had been barely used by its previous owners. During the last oil change I did (1.5 - 2 months before hydrolock), the oil was grey. I thought this was an issue that needed to be investigated, but the engine was running fine and the engine survey had come back fine as well, so I decided it could wait to be addressed later as long as I don't take it out for a long sail in the interim.

The way the mechanic explained it is this:
- Hydrolock was due to either overcranking (most likely), or
- Water getting into the exhaust system during heavy seas.

I'm not a mechanical person at all, nor have I spent a ton of time around sailboats (I am however ASA 101/103/104 certified).

So besides overcranking, (which I understand to be turning the key to the right and holding it there for more than 20 seconds) are there any other things a new boat owner or layperson should be aware of that can completely ruin an engine or boat so that such mistakes can be avoided in the future?

[psk125]

Make sure water is coming out the exhaust. This shows that the cooling system is working.

[Excalibur5]

Lots of things.. The learning curve in boats is initially extremely steep - akin to trying to drink from a fire hose.


I'd educate yourself - go out with other sailors on the water and take note of their initial system checks prior to leaving the dock. Then look at your boat and its systems and devise a pre-trip check prep list. There are a number of these out there, but as boats are so varied, you will need to alter it for your own situation.


A couple "gotchas" I can think of right off.


1. Never just crank a wet-exhaust engine over 20 seconds or you risk hydro-locking it and extreme damage (unfortunately you found this one out the hard way) if you must continue cranking it, shut the intake seacock until it starts to avoid this issue.


2. Never shut off the main battery switch with the engine running. This will instantly cook your alternator.


3. Be sure your fuel is clean and in good condition before heading out in bouncy seas. Always carry multiple spare fuel filters.


4. Be sure your raw water impeller is in good condition, and replace it annually.


5. Do a inspection of your rig before and after every trip. Look for loose fittings, cracks, chafe, loose or missing locking pins, etc.



Obviously this is only a few of the items. Boats aren't fragile per-se; but do require lots of maintenance and constant observation of their condition.

[SailingHoot]

Originally Posted by Excalibur5

2. Never shut off the main battery switch with the engine running. This will instantly cook your alternator.

Question about this: Could shutting off the main battery cook my Lowrance chartplotter?

hypothetically of course...

[desodave]

All great advice. I'll add; check the sea strainer on your raw water intake before you start it .... it can get clogged with seaweed, plastic bags et al. Corollary to point 1; make sure the raw water seacock is open ... saves finding it out when the water isn't coming out the exhaust. Check the exhaust every time ! Corollary to point 3 ; learn how to change your fuel filters. Better to learn at the dock than have to learn at sea.
Best of luck with the new engine. Like you I had very little idea of what I had to do with my first boat ... thankfully though I didn't cook the engine learning. It is usually very rough in the Passage to get to my marina ... wind against current ... and I had mine cough and die near the marina entrance. Luckily able to restart and limp in before the current built .... and having to drop the anchor in a busy channel.

[nightowle]

Very sorry to hear about this engine debacle in what is surely a very nice boat. As mentioned, the learning curve at first is high. We've all been there. But there are so many resources. You've proven to be dedicated by taking the ASA courses, so all I can say is more reading is in your future. Just perhaps more on boat maintenance than on sailing skills, per se. Nigel Calder comes to mind as an author of several great books to get your nose into. This site, as well as sailboatowners.com and perhaps sailnet are where you want to lurk often. YouTube is a veritable Library of Congress for how-to videos, including how to change specific fuel filters for specific engines.

[GreenWave]

If your engine oil was "gray" when you changed the oil then there was already a problem at hand. What exactly did your engine survey look at? What did that surveyor do? Did they take oil and fuel samples?

[Excalibur5]

Originally Posted by SailingHoot

Question about this: Could shutting off the main battery cook my Lowrance chartplotter?

hypothetically of course...

Not likely. Shutting off the main battery switch when running the engine causes the alternator to instantly go from high output to nothing, which fries the diodes in the alternator, rendering it useless. With your chartplotter, it would just shut down, shouldn't cause any issues.

[gonesail]

an engine survey said that grey oil was OK? you must be thinking of a regular boat survey .. they don't check the oil.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by person

Purchased a CS 33 (Canadian Sailcraft) which was in good condition 6 months ago, but after taking it out only 4, maybe 5 or so times, when I last tried to start it, the engine wouldn't start, and further investigation revealed milky white oil and the engine had experienced hydrolock, and I am now looking at purchasing a new engine.

Some context: Engine had low engine hours, and the boat had been barely used by its previous owners. During the last oil change I did (1.5 - 2 months before hydrolock), the oil was grey. I thought this was an issue that needed to be investigated, but the engine was running fine and the engine survey had come back fine as well, so I decided it could wait to be addressed later as long as I don't take it out for a long sail in the interim.

The way the mechanic explained it is this:
- Hydrolock was due to either overcranking (most likely), or
- Water getting into the exhaust system during heavy seas.

I'm not a mechanical person at all, nor have I spent a ton of time around sailboats (I am however ASA 101/103/104 certified).

So besides overcranking, (which I understand to be turning the key to the right and holding it there for more than 20 seconds) are there any other things a new boat owner or layperson should be aware of that can completely ruin an engine or boat so that such mistakes can be avoided in the future?

Grey means there was already water in the oil 2 months ago. Could be lots of things, perhaps a bad head gasket?

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by Excalibur5

1. Never just crank a wet-exhaust engine over 20 seconds or you risk hydro-locking it and extreme damage (unfortunately you found this one out the hard way) if you must continue cranking it, shut the intake seacock until it starts to avoid this issue.

….

Did a little searching but no quick answer, so question on this one: how exactly?

Shouldn’t the exhaust stroke be forcing air out of the cylinder and preventing any significant amount water from entering even without any combustion?

I could see if you filled the exhaust with water, then stopped cranking, water could leak in slowly around the valve (or through an open valve that stopped mid stroke), but then the hydro lock will occur before the 1st full revolution, most likely when the starter is still doing all the work. This is certainly bad, but I wouldn’t think the starter would have the torque to damage engine internals?

And question for the OP: are you 100% sure it hydrolocked? Milky oil sounds like what happens when the engine is run with water or coolant in the oil, not just from failing to start it. You may just have a failed head gasket, which isn’t necessarily a death sentence.

[BlueH2Obound]

The problem may actually be with the build of the boat/exhaust system. If the engine exhaust manifold doesn't have much room over it to support a proper "loop", then water draining back into the exhaust is pretty much a given unless the engine fires up pretty much the first few revolutions. Poor design will have to be corrected if this is the case. Without seeing your exact setup it's impossible to diagnose if this is your issue. Before you just remove and replace/rebuild the existing engine, I would have the installation looked at by a qualified mechanic (good luck finding one) to see if the design/build is adequate. Best of luck going forward!

[jeanathon]

overcranking? That sounds like the bad gas excuse clueless mechanics give when they feel like they have to say something. Can we get a definition of overcranking as it pertains to breaking an engine vs draining a battery.

[Excalibur5]

Originally Posted by wyb2

Did a little searching but no quick answer, so question on this one: how exactly?

Shouldn’t the exhaust stroke be forcing air out of the cylinder and preventing any significant amount water from entering even without any combustion?

I could see if you filled the exhaust with water, then stopped cranking, water could leak in slowly around the valve (or through an open valve that stopped mid stroke), but then the hydro lock will occur before the 1st full revolution, most likely when the starter is still doing all the work. This is certainly bad, but I wouldn’t think the starter would have the torque to damage engine internals?

And question for the OP: are you 100% sure it hydrolocked? Milky oil sounds like what happens when the engine is run with water or coolant in the oil, not just from failing to start it. You may just have a failed head gasket, which isn’t necessarily a death sentence.

Unfortunately, it happens frequently on sailboats where the engine is mounted low in the boat, most of the time below water line. As you state, when cranking the engine too long without starting the muffler fills up, and the non-firing engine does not have enough pressure to force the water out of the muffler and out the exhaust. As soon as the engine cranking is stopped, then the salt water can backflow into the exhaust, through the open or partially open valves, filling one or more cylinders with water.


The damage from there can vary dramatically, somewhat dependent on your luck. Diesel engine starters do indeed have a lot of torque (necessary with the 15:1 or more compression ratio of diesel engines), and can damage pistons, connecting rods, piston rings, or valves by trying to compress an incompressible fluid (water). It can also blow out a head gasket from the forces involved, although I personally haven't seen this happen. If the water is left in the cylinders any time at all, rust can set in, and it can ruin the delicate tips of the fuel injectors, and rust the piston rings to the side of the cylinders, and rust the valves, just to name a few.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by Excalibur5

Unfortunately, it happens frequently on sailboats where the engine is mounted low in the boat, most of the time below water line. As you state, when cranking the engine too long without starting the muffler fills up, and the non-firing engine does not have enough pressure to force the water out of the muffler and out the exhaust. As soon as the engine cranking is stopped, then the salt water can backflow into the exhaust, through the open or partially open valves, filling one or more cylinders with water.

Do you know of any sailboats where the inboard was mounted above the water line?