Are there any Affordable Bluewater Boats built in the 90's?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

^^

Regarding speed and performance . . . . . I like cruising in "performance oriented" boats, but for me it has almost nothing to do with faster passages, where I agree a day here or there really does not make any difference. I just really enjoy short tacking up a narrow channel, or sailing onto anchor in a small cove, or ghosting along in 3 kts of breeze. For me, done well, with dash and elegance, those are some of the joyful moments of cruising.

And not resorting to the engine when coastal cruising and the wind drops below 10 kts.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Not sure how you did your 3,000 mile comparison.

I see about 125 secs/mile difference in the PHRF ratings between the boats. That's about 4.3 days over 3,000 miles. Of course the PHRF rating is a mixed wind conditions rating and if I got to choose the 3,000 would be all downwind. In those conditions the J should be even faster. And just to contradict the predictions a Westsail 32 won the 1988 Pacific Cup to Hawaii.

I used EStareziner's formula as outlined in an earlier post. The formula is from his website.

His formula results in a lower average speed than PHRF. This is in keeping with the fact that cruising boats generally have two crew, are sailed with less effort (for weeks not hours or days) and have a much larger load aboard despite the smaller crew due to the need to carry cruising gear, provisions and water for an extended period. Heavier boats tend to to take a smaller performance hit because the added weight is a smaller percentage of displacement. He checked the formula against the logs of a number of cruising boats. I've checked the formula against PHRF and found a good correlation. I'm trying to find other data sources to check it against.

We all wish we could pick our winds. Alas.

I remember that Pacific cup win. They had their rating raised partway thru the race and still won. Like I say the boat is under-rated.


Adelie

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

^^

Regarding speed and performance . . . . . I like cruising in "performance oriented" boats, but for me it has almost nothing to do with faster passages, where I agree a day here or there really does not make any difference. I just really enjoy short tacking up a narrow channel, or sailing onto anchor in a small cove, or ghosting along in 3 kts of breeze. For me, done well, with dash and elegance, those are some of the joyful moments of cruising.

I think that's a pretty common sentiment, after all we are almost all sailors first and not just cruisers. But I guess the real question is where to draw that line. For me, it's somewhere heavier than a J-Boat. There was a 44 foot J Boat set up for racing that I used to see ghosting through the harbor from my mooring, frequently when there seemed to be almost no trace of wind at all. You'd swear he must have had his engine turned on but he didn't, just a very well set up boat and very good sailor. If I sound a bit envious, it's because at those moments I was. But the lack of cruising equipment onboard and the hull/keel/rudder shape and the tall skinny rig that all contributed to allowing him to do that would all be a real PIA pounding offshore or for living aboard for any long stretch. So, for me, I'd rather have something a bit heavier (but definitely with the ability to sail in light air), and then launch the sailing dinghy to enjoy the super light air in the harbor. But I do understand that we all have our own ideas about where to draw that line in the sailing performance continuum, depending on our own comfort level and intended use of the boat, and one of the keys to being happy with your choice of boat is to first be very honest with yourself about how you're actually going to use it and what your priorities are as far as performance/comfort go.

[atlantical]

I was told by two idiots who both had RYA offshore masters certificates, that they could deliver an Irwin citation I had from the USA to the UK in December, these guys knew so little that they thought any boat could cross the atlantic, and they thought they could do it at any time, they got as far as Bermuda, (and were lucky to get that far) and both flew home, nothing goes to windward like a 747. Only a tiny percentage of boats under 45 foot were built to take on oceans, most people that buy a 35 foot sail boat, are just using it as a weekend holiday home in a marina, very few will ever take it across and ocean, and to build a 35 foot boat to take on an ocean, costs an awful lot more than it does to build one that is never going to be out in storm force winds, decks can be screwed on with self tappers rather than bolted, chain plates can be attached to bulkheads, rather than onto mouldings attached to the boat, hulls can be made much thinner, and not double skinned, fittings can be screwed to the deck rather than through bolted, less stays can be used, smaller stays can be used, more bunks can be put in, masts can be thinner, everything dosent have to be as strong as it does on a blue water boat, and why would anyone pay for what they don't need. My boat now is a southern cross 31 I paid 8500 dollars for it, worked on it for two months in the boat yard at hampstead north Carolina, then ran it across the atlantic with few problems other that leaky stantchions that had been bolted to the deck instead of the gunwale, and I left the usa in September, spent the winter in Bermuda Antigua guada loop, Montserrat , then sailed across in spring, to Scotland, the boat is small inside, very heavy, very out of date, but safe to sail in the atlantic, I would never try that trip on Benetau the same size as my boat, a traditional design are the only smaller boats that can cross oceans, though, there are some small racers designed for ocean crossing, but they are usually designed for a particular race, like the mini transit, those boats can only sail downwind, they cant sail them back from the usa, they are not strong enough to take on the westerlies.

[AndytheSailor]

I so agree with Atlantical. I spent hundreds of hours looking through thousands of boats to come up with a shortlist of 6, two HR 352's, two Scanmar 40's, a Moody 38 and a Wind 44. The Scanmar is brilliant but I Am still having to spend over £15,000 to bring her up to the level I consider good enough to cross oceans.
Cunningly enough I also engaged two crew with RYA qualifications from Gibralter who when it came down to it couldn't't steer a compass course and nodded off when on anchor watch. Anyone can get a certificate but when you get down to it experience and if possible references are what counts.

[NLS]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Okay... silly bit over with.. down to brass tacks...
WTF's 'Affordable'... for me thats a 80's 37ft ferrocement at $14000...
To someone else its $300K for a 90's boat

I am right now hunting for a CHEAP 40' + Motorcruiser for livaboard. I mean no engines cheap, seriously. Like $15 - $20K. Just look kind of neat and be semi-comfortable. Need it QUICK. N.W. Seattle area but could transport. Anyone?


NLS