Are there any Rope Size, Color and Use Standards?

[doc_cj]

I wrote a brief intro last week and was waiting to post my first real message. I wanted to do some research before asking, so that I'm hopefully educated enough to understand the various answers.

The boat I bought is a 1978 Hunter 27. Since I don't know the age of the wire or rope in the rigging I already cautious and may be ready to do a lot of changing out/up-grading. Before I start, though, I want to find out about any "standards" or "rules of thumb" when it comes to the various uses and selections. Following are my more specific questions.

NOTE: Those who wish to tell me to "research" or have some other negative comment, please keep it to yourself. I have done my due diligence and the next level of that trek includes asking those with more experience and understanding of the topic.

1) I see a significant use of the nylon lines for the sheets, is there a reason to use a different size for different sales; i.e., 1/2" for main, 3/8 for jib, etc.?

1a) How about for Vangs, travellers, and other parts of the rigging?

2) Staying on the sail rigging/lines, I see that color coordinating is a good idea. Right now the boat has only a single color (white) and I've already found that color coding can be a help. From what I've found I think I see a pattern with white line being used for mainsail sheet and halyard; blue line for Jib/genoa; red and green for the Spinnaker, and black line for Vangs and travellers. Are these standardized in some way (not really any reason to change the pattern, but if I've got it wrong then please tell me).

2a) Docking lines also seem to be color coded, but I can't find a standardization. Is there one, or is there a common code that is used in the US and nearby waters?

3) In this first few months of sailing, I'll likely go no more than an overnight trip from my home marina. Is there an amount of extra rope that a boat sailing close to home should be carrying? On longer trips, up to a week along the US coast, is there a good plan for extra rope or riggings?

That's it for now. I want to thank everyone that may contribute to my learning.

[Stumble]

There are standard color patterns, but they don't really agree, and there's is no real convention between boats. I do recommend that every sail have its own color, and the sheet and halyard be contrasting solid/flecked. Which color for which sail doesn't matter much.

As for line selection... you have two issues material and size.

For material

1) the only place nylon should be used is dock lines and anchor lines, where it's high stretch characteristics are a benefit.

2) for all other running rigging the cheap answer for running rigging is a Dacron double braid line like sta-set. It is very reasonably priced, comes in a wide variety of flavors and has acceptable stretch and strength characteristics. Realistically just go to the manufacturer's website and they all have selection recommendations, start with the low tech recommendations.

A step up in line quality brings you to dyneema. Far stronger that Dacron, and lighter, it is so strong that sizing is driven by the smallest line your deck gear and hands can handle. You can get into some pretty esoteric splicing practices to use the smallest line possible with covers added for your hands and winches as needed, but the splicing drives up price a lot, and frankly is silly for anything but a race boat (I am silly, do my own splices, and my cruising boat has these lines).

For anchor and dock lines you wat nylon, and generally black is preferred because it is actually stronger for the same size. I have no idea why, but it is, and is also less susceptible to UV damage.

Do not use Dacron lines from the rigging for dock lines. The low stretch nature of rigging lines can cause shock loads on cleats.

[UNCIVILIZED]

For mast mounted lines there are some nominal standards.
Red for port spinnaker halyard, & Green for starboard. Though at times they change sides inside of the spar so that they exit on the side opposite to their color. And this is so that it's easier to stand to windward & pull on them.
Blue for topping lift.
Various different colors for each the main, jib, & staysail halyards. With none of them being the same as the above 3. And they can be either flecked or solid.

The reason for the above colors, & where the clutches & winches for them are on the deck (port or starboard) is so that a person can step onto a boat that's new to them, & intuitively know which line is which, both by color, & location. A handy thing; for newbys, or when you're tired, etc.

When it comes to jib sheets, spin sheets, etc. you're best to keep each set the same color on both sides of the boat. Meaning having say your primary jib sheets be solid white (port & starboard). Your spin sheets grey, flecked with black (again, port & starboard). And so on.

Some people tend to want to make the jib sheet red on port, & green on starboard, to be in keeping with running light colors. But this can add a lot of complication to things once you start routinely having more than just one set of sheets for sails forward of the mast.

Also, try to pick colors, or color fleck patterns so that it's easy to tell the lines apart; in the dark sans headlamp, in the dark with white headlamps, & in the dark with red tinted headlamps. For reasons that should be obvious.

Oh, & for reefing lines, keep the tack & clew reefing lines the same color at each reef. And pick colors/color patterns for your reefing lines that again are different from anything else onboard.

When it comes to the size of running rigging. 3/8" is about the smallest that one can comfortably grip by hand. And you need to make sure that your self tailing winches can easily grip your lines as well. Otherwise size them for strength, & to minimize their stretching under load. As stretch is what wears them out the fastest, other than UV if left out in the sun every day.

Samson Rope, & other cordage manufacturers have some excellent line selection guides on their websites. To cover what material works best for each type of control line, & for best sizing them. As do many rigging suppliers such as www.apsltd.com


Edit: White nylon is stronger than black, when it comes to anchor & docklines. Methinks Stumble has it reversed. And some folks do use dacron doublebraid for anchor lines, as it loses less strength when wet vs. nylon. And it doesn't suffer from internal heating as much when heavily cyclically loaded. Such as in storms.

[JPA Cate]

Hello doc_cj,

I'll give it a go, to answer, and also suggest you do a CF Google Custom search on this as UNCIVILIZED wrote a really complete answer to this question not long ago.

1) I see a significant use of the nylon lines for the sheets, is there a reason to use a different size for different sales; i.e., 1/2" for main, 3/8 for jib, etc.?
There a couple of reasons for sizes of line. Even where a smaller diameter line is possible to be used (adequate breaking strength) sometimes larger lines are used for ease of handling. So the choice can be very personal, for example if you're doc caroline johnson, you might be an obstetrician with tiny hands, whereas, if you're doc carl jones, 6'3, and with hands the size of a basketball player, you might want larger diameter line simply for ease of handling. The other reason a line like a genoa sheet might be larger than necessary is for chafe resistance. Generally speaking, lines under 3/8 (10 m) are too small to have good hand.

1a) How about for Vangs, travellers, and other parts of the rigging? We use spectra line for that, 10 mm.

2) Staying on the sail rigging/lines, I see that color coordinating is a good idea. Right now the boat has only a single color (white) and I've already found that color coding can be a help. From what I've found I think I see a pattern with white line being used for mainsail sheet and halyard; blue line for Jib/genoa; red and green for the Spinnaker, and black line for Vangs and travellers. Are these standardized in some way (not really any reason to change the pattern, but if I've got it wrong then please tell me).
As far as I know, there is no universal code. In our usage, we like lines with different purposes to have different color coding. On our boat, the traveler line is 10 mm, white, with red flecks; mainsheet is black; reefing lines are #1 white, #2 dark green, and #3, hi vis green flourescent; the Genoa sheets are white with dark blue flecks; the staysail, white with light blue flecks; and the preventers, also white with light blue flecks--this was because we got a really good price on the line, and we should not have done it, I have to check each time I choose between the two and it is a PITA; The genoa furler is bright yellow, and the staysail furler is white with red and black ticks. Entirely individual. The good plan, though, is to have different colors for different purposes. Our main halyard isn't black, it is blue, and our genoa halyard is white, the staysail halyard, red and white, the toppping lift white with black and blue flecks, baby stay is grey dyneema. There are other bits of line around, the old red traveler line was re-cycled to the tackles for the vang and the baby stay.

Now dock lines are nylon. Proper use for your genoa sheets would be polyester double braid, not nylon.

2a) Docking lines also seem to be color coded, but I can't find a standardization. Is there one, or is there a common code that is used in the US and nearby waters? Dock line size would be chosen by breaking strength. White nylon dock line is stronger than the black. You choose how safe the boat will be in a big storm by choosing strong (larger diameter) dock lines, and providing chafe gear for where it goes around the cleats, and any other chafe areas. It is the stretch of nylon that makes it preferable for securing the boat. Use the West Marine catalog as a guide for selecting the size for your boat.

3) In this first few months of sailing, I'll likely go no more than an overnight trip from my home marina. Is there an amount of extra rope that a boat sailing close to home should be carrying? On longer trips, up to a week along the US coast, is there a good plan for extra rope or riggings? If you are going to spend the night on the hook, if you have all chain anchor rode, you will want a nylon snubber line. This can be attached to the chain with a rolling hitch or a chain hook, there are a number of different ones. If you plan to go into a marina, you should have at least 4 dock lines you carry for the purpose. You can take the ones from your dock with you, or carry separate, your choice. Also, you should have a forward spring line and rear, and they should be the length of your boat plus about 6 feet. There are previous threads about using spring lines on CF, in case you're interested. If you carry your dinghy on deck, you'll want line to secure it, this can be recycled from the line you're replacing. Don't chuck all your old line in the bin, keep a few on the boat, you really might find a use for it, possibly to help someone else.

T

I hope this helps. Briefly, no standardized codes, but a great deal of attention to breaking strength and non-stretch vs. stretch.

Ann

[UNCIVILIZED]

Since Ann hinted at it, here's a list of possible lines on an older style 40' (IOR) racing boat. And there are likely a few missing from it, but it gives you a sense of why lines get color coded.
Note that P/S means Port & Starboard, so it means 1 pair/set of sheets, or guys.

This is ONLY running rigging on deck mind you.
Without; Spares, reefing strops, lashings, loops, line shackles, etc.. Nor does it include; dock lines, warps, anchor lines, drogues, bridles, towing lines, or any others.
And given say, a 40'er with a tall mast, call the halyards 150' each (Code 0's are double that), jib sheets 75' each, kite sheets & guys 100'+ each, & you can do a SWAG on the math for the others:

Um, & yeah, recalling what line goes over top of (or under) the next does get quite "interesting". That & color coding them gets interesting in the dark.

Main Halyard
Trysail Halyard/Spare Main Halyard (or Alternative Boom Topping Lift)
Trysail Tack Pennant
Cunningham
Outhaul
Flattener (Mainsail)
Clew Reef #1 - #3 (or 4)
Tack Reef #1 – #3 (or 4)
Lazy Jax - P/S
Baby Stay Tensioner (Deck Level)
Jib Halyards – P/S (or Primary & Solent)
Kite Halyards – P/S (or Primary & Code)
Topping Lifts (Kites/Whisker Poles) - 2 (for 2-pole spinnaker jibes)
Boom Topping Lift
Solent Halyard
Staysail halyard
Jib Downhaul
Solent Downhaul
Staysail Downhaul
Solent/Staysail Stay Tensioner (Deck Level)
Code 0 Halyards - P/S
Code 0 Tensioner (Deck Level)
Jib Furling Line
Code 0 Furling Line
Code 0 Furlers, Tack Pendants
Spinnaker Furlers, Furling Lines - 2+
Spinnaker Furler Tack Pendants - 2+
Foreguy – P/S
Jib Sheet #1 - P/S
Jib Sheet #2 - P/S
Jib Twing - P/S (Alternately, Barber Haulers)
Jib Traveler/Car Adjuster - P/S
Afterguy #1 - P/S
Afterguy #2 - P/S (For Spinnaker Peels, & or 2-pole jibes)
Spin Sheet #1 - P/S
Spin Sheet #2 - P/S (Alternatively, Reachers, Codes, etc.), & or Changing Sheet
Running Backs/Checks Stays - P/S
Runner Tails - P/S
Preventer – P/S
Main Sheet (Tail) - P/S
Main Sheet Traveler - P/S
Trysail Sheets - P/S

--> AKA: Only Amateurs ask, "How Much"? <--
And to save you the trouble, the above equates to 60-Some lines of Running Rigging only

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Stumble

...
2) for all other running rigging the cheap answer for running rigging is a Dacron double braid line like sta-set.
...

All good points, but please, don't call them Dacron ropes. Dacron is a trade name for a specific formulation of polyester.

There are many different double braid polyester lines.

[doc_cj]

WOW!! These are some really GREAT answers. Thank you to everyone for putting in so much time and effort to help a NOOB. I've printed off each answer and I'm using it as part of my sailing bible.

[Sandero]

You might want to get a small but very handy and useful book...

Sailing Illustrated - The Sailors Bible by Patrick Royce

https://www.amazon.com/Sailing-Illus...+Sailors+Bible

It may not have the latest and the greatest, but it will explain almost everything you need to know about sailing.... and it fits in your back pocket.