Bad Market - Good Negotiation Strategies ?

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Then they should be able to provide comparable sales details on comparable vessels to support the price asked.


I'd tell 'em their dreamin' and walk away.

For anyone who has owned a retail business and dealt with the "general public," that video was hilarious . . . 5 STARS!

[JRM]

Well, guess that boat isn't really for sale. It would have been nice to know before I wasted a bunch of my and everyone else's time.

I put in a good faith offer just under 80% of the asking price (which is still high) and the owners son gave his broker a "tongue lashing" (his words) and immediately countered back at full asking price. So much for the broker's comments about "just wanting to sell." A little honesty could have saved me a ton of time.

As far as I'm concerned he can pound sand. I'm not going to let myself be offended by his behavior, but I'm not going to subject myself to it either. Thus, the search continues. Maybe someday I'll find something that's actually for sale instead of just being dangled.

It's only a buyer's market if you're trying to sell...

JRM

[Celestialsailor]

How long has it been on the market?

[bobconnie]

I just had a broker tell me that an average boat stays on the market 20 to 24 months !! and is discounted 2 to 3 times in that time !! just look at the money and time that would be saved if brokers priced boats for what the past few months market showed insted of putting a High price on them !! Im looking at aboat first listed at 149,000 US now at 75,000 but will sell for 45,000, What a total waste of time and money for the owner !! and I got this info over the phone !! Really good broker he honestly told me the good and the bad ! I would sure deal with him not trying to say he did anything wrong, but someone should have educated the owner LOL just my 2 cents

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by JRM

I put in a good faith offer just under 80% of the asking price (which is still high) and the owners son gave his broker a "tongue lashing" (his words) and immediately countered back at full asking price. So much for the broker's comments about "just wanting to sell." A little honesty could have saved me a ton of time.

The son probably has every reason to reject the offer (and this would also explain the mess the boat was in) if he wants to keep it as his cottage on the water. I doubt the actual owner knows what is going on. I would invest some effort in making the owner aware of the situation if I were in your shoes. I would also make the owner aware of the fact that the broker doesn't seem interested in selling it either .... hire a cleaning lady on your dollar - yeah, right

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

I just had a broker tell me that an average boat stays on the market 20 to 24 months !! and is discounted 2 to 3 times in that time !! just look at the money and time that would be saved if brokers priced boats for what the past few months market showed insted of putting a High price on them !! Im looking at aboat first listed at 149,000 US now at 75,000 but will sell for 45,000, What a total waste of time and money for the owner !! and I got this info over the phone !! Really good broker he honestly told me the good and the bad ! I would sure deal with him not trying to say he did anything wrong, but someone should have educated the owner LOL just my 2 cents

As an outsider venturing into the american market for the first and likely the last time i concur with what the broker told you.

Yep it wastes the owners time BUT do you think, that just maybe, if the broker fessed up at the outset as to the likely selling price, less his commission, that he wouldn't get a listing.

As i've said before boats generally are TOYS and when things get tough the toys must go, simply the choice becomes do we lose the house or do we lose the toys? The answer is a given....

What is sad about all this is when the owner lists he has expectations, i'm sure the broker doesn't layout the likely scenario to the seller. The seller decides to sacrifice in the hope of saving his arse and he waits and he waits....

Where will the market go from here?

Cheers Frank

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

I just had a broker tell me that an average boat stays on the market 20 to 24 months !! and is discounted 2 to 3 times in that time !! just look at the money and time that would be saved if brokers priced boats for what the past few months market showed insted of putting a High price on them !! Im looking at aboat first listed at 149,000 US now at 75,000 but will sell for 45,000, What a total waste of time and money for the owner !! and I got this info over the phone !! Really good broker he honestly told me the good and the bad ! I would sure deal with him not trying to say he did anything wrong, but someone should have educated the owner LOL just my 2 cents

I haven't seen any boats I'd want to own selling at that kind of discount (66%). Without divulging the boat do you mind telling us the make, size and year? Just curious.

[TomandAnitas34]

You got to take a moment and understand the plight of the brokers. If he wants to make a sale, he has to have a boat to list. No one will list his boat with a broker that says, "Yeah, I can get you half what it's worth." I mean, figure it out. Just to get a boat to sell, he has to give some reason to list with him. Then he has to deliver on that promise the best he can. I wouldn't want to be a broker.
As for the kid " tongue lashing " the broker. Well, you can't fix stupid. It's a shame the broker has to put up with that kind of treatment. Were I a broker, I know how hard I'd be selling that boat afterwards.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by TomandAnitas34

You got to take a moment and understand the plight of the brokers. If he wants to make a sale, he has to have a boat to list. No one will list his boat with a broker that says, "Yeah, I can get you half what it's worth." I mean, figure it out. Just to get a boat to sell, he has to give some reason to list with him. Then he has to deliver on that promise the best he can. I wouldn't want to be a broker.
As for the kid " tongue lashing " the broker. Well, you can't fix stupid. It's a shame the broker has to put up with that kind of treatment. Were I a broker, I know how hard I'd be selling that boat afterwards.

+1 Exactly

[Gelfling]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

I just had a broker tell me that an average boat stays on the market 20 to 24 months !! and is discounted 2 to 3 times in that time !! just look at the money and time that would be saved if brokers priced boats for what the past few months market showed insted of putting a High price on them !! Im looking at aboat first listed at 149,000 US now at 75,000 but will sell for 45,000, What a total waste of time and money for the owner !! and I got this info over the phone !! Really good broker he honestly told me the good and the bad ! I would sure deal with him not trying to say he did anything wrong, but someone should have educated the owner LOL just my 2 cents

1) I have never known of a broker that has 'priced the boat' that was for sale, this is done by the owner.

2) They are usually getting an average of about $150 a month for the boat to sit either in the yard or at a slip waiting to be sold. So I would think the broker/yard owner is grinning ear to ear if the boat sits there.

3) It seems that in the next couple years you will see the process of offering extremely high only to get about 50% of offer will vanish. The rates are usually dropping because folks are just not putting in an offer on these boats so the price is lowered just so that they become more 'visible'.

Just like in the US housing market, just because someone paid $300k for it 4 years ago when jobs were plentiful doesn't mean that someone is going to pay that today. When I was in the market, the broker walked me around the yard and let me know which boats could be 'negotiated' because he didn't want to waste his time on the 'firm' prices. But the 'firm' prices are usually because of what is owed to the banks......would be my guess.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by JRM

Well, guess that boat isn't really for sale. It would have been nice to know before I wasted a bunch of my and everyone else's time.

Whilst my prior comments ("Suck it up dudes" ) may seem harsh on the Vendor / Broker ......IMO that also applies to Buyers - some of the folks you deal with will be complete muppets , but that's just how it is. If you want PITA free then buy from a brochure, at list price.

In this case you are dealing with Muppets, put the experiance in the bank and move on .

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by TomandAnitas34

You got to take a moment and understand the plight of the brokers. If he wants to make a sale, he has to have a boat to list. No one will list his boat with a broker that says, "Yeah, I can get you half what it's worth." I mean, figure it out. Just to get a boat to sell, he has to give some reason to list with him. Then he has to deliver on that promise the best he can. I wouldn't want to be a broker.

It's a tricky one for sure.

If I was a Broker (which I am not ), would start off by talking about what value the Vendor thought the boat had, then talk about what I think can be realistically acheived (within a reasonable timescale).

In most cases their would be a gap between the two values - sometimes (often?!) a very large gap!

Therefore I would:-

1) list the boat initially at whatever asking price the Vendor wanted / agreed to (for the reason stated - if I don't list it I can't sell it!)

2) the listing would be on the understanding that the asking price would be looked at very carefully after / every 3(?) months, once feedback had been received from potential buyers - if any! (the thinking is that a more realistic asking price has already been seeded into the Vendors mind - even without being reinforced by offers, so in a few months a Vendor may be willing to be realistic).

3) if after 3 months (or so) the listing price was still (IMO) unrealistic the Vendor gets the option of dropping price..........or going Foxtrot Oscar . My happy(ish) compromise would be "optimistic" on price, if I felt the chance was good that would turn into "realistic" when / if an actual offer was on the table......but the Vendor would be put clearly on notice what I thought of the asking price! (and I would also be calculating the cost to a Vendor of the boat not being sold every month - moorings, maintanence and finance, plus the risk of unexpected repairs.....some folks not very good at looking at the overall picture , what's better? $90k in the bank next month or the chance of $100k less $10k of expenses a year later?).

To my mind, no point having something listed that will never sell.....unless I was getting paid for storage and / or guardianage - but nonetheless I would still make very clear to the Vendor that his unrealistic asking price means the boat won't ever sell.

Of course not everyone can cope with honesty .....the key, as always, is being able to afford to say no (or FO - politely or bluntly ).

[JRM]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Of course not everyone can cope with honesty .....the key, as always, is being able to afford to say no (or FO - politely or bluntly ).

This is the key. It's his boat, if he wants to dangle it that's his choice. I'm off to San Diego next week to look at more boats, including one that looks really good on paper.

In college I got hit by a drunk driver and got pretty dinged up. As a result I got a bit of a settlement check (didn't get an attorney because I don't believe in PI stuff, but since they offered enough for me to buy a nice used car, who am I to turn it down ). I thought it would be cool to buy a car with actual cash money. I had looked at one that I liked, test driven it, and applied the 24 hour rule. I went to the bank and got the cash to cover the cost and taxes and all the fees (it was a pretty cheap vehicle) which was around $10k (the sum total of what I got). I went to the dealer lot with the cash intending to buy the car. I walked over to give it a quick once more over. No salesman came over (I had just come from work and was wearing slacks and a collar shirt). I attempted to wave them over, and they all just stood there at the front of the showroom staring at me. I made a big gesture for one of them to come over and talk to me, and one guy just waved back at me. So I left. I went and bought the same model private party for a bit less in a color I liked less. I drove that car straight to the dealership, pulled up out front, and asked the first sales guy if I could speak to the manager. I pointed out my new car, and then over to the one sitting on his lot, and told him that I had been by earlier in the week with actual cash money to purchase that one, but that none of his sales force had seen it worthwhile to even come over and talk to me. I thanked him for saving me a few hundred dollars and wished him well in moving his inventory.

So if and when this guy calls back, I'm over it. The problem is that since he was less than forthright about the owner's desire, I started to wonder what else he was less than forthright about. Those black streaks under the port, were those really from a port left open or did it leak and he was lying? Were the cushions all over because he was getting something from under the bed, or was there a mold problem? All the little things that I was willing to overlook because (afterall) it's a 10 year old boat suddenly seem much more important. I don't want to throw down a grand on the full survey to find out what else he was lying about.

I would have been willing to go up another $12-15k initially (that's why it's called negotiation). Now I find that even if he calls back, I'd be hesitant to move more than $3-5k because I've talked myself even further down. Oh well. On to San Diego!

How's that for a negotiation strategy in a bad market?

JRM

[familycruisers]

Hey, maybe I'll just put my newly purchased boat back on the market for 10 times what I paid. Sit back and wait. If it sells, nice ! If not, nice! Oh, shake down cruises are fine but you have to bring ice and ice tea, no negotiations there!

[Billy Higgins]

Is there website anyone may know of that can chase down the VIN? (vessel identification number). Not just the make and year info, but maybe determine who owns the boat, if there is a mortgage, prior owners, damage. Just curious, because something similar does exist for automobiles.