Beneteau 38

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by mstrebe

Nor mine. When we outfit for cruising (which won't be until next summer at the earliest due to my work schedule) we will be adding an aft arch with 600 watts of solar and a wind turbine to support a 40GPH watermaker and a small emergency 1.5GPH watermaker that can be manually operated if necessary. That'll eliminate any concerns about water tankage. It'll also have rod holders so we can drag line fish.

But rear arches are so ugly! It will spoil the beautiful lines of the boat. Still, I understand it would be hard to put those solar panels on anything else.

I am curious, which version of the 38 did you get? Which layout?

I think you're smart to install your own watermakers. They cost at least twice as much when you get them as a factory installed option. Where will you put them? The 38 doesn't seem to have a lot of room to install things.

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by Rohan

But rear arches are so ugly! It will spoil the beautiful lines of the boat. Still, I understand it would be hard to put those solar panels on anything else.

'Tis true, tis true, and that's the big reason I'm not doing it until we're ready to cruise. I just don't see any other reasonable option.

Originally Posted by Rohan

I am curious, which version of the 38 did you get? Which layout?

We got the weekender heavily optioned for cruising. It's the three-cabin layout with the full galley, shower, and without the partition bulkhead. It has the salon berth option, aqua-pack, and all electrics and electronics. RF mainsail, electric windlass. Teak in he cockpit but not on deck.

We didn't order it; it's the demo boat for the San Diego dealership, but it's very close to how we would have ordered it having only a few things we wouldn't have ordered and everything we would have.

I would have ordered it without teak and without the big cockpit table, and sans the inflatable swimming pool thing. So I offered low to eliminate those costs and they accepted.

Originally Posted by Rohan

I think you're smart to install your own watermakers. They cost at least twice as much when you get them as a factory installed option. Where will you put them? The 38 doesn't seem to have a lot of room to install things.

I'm actually building it from stock parts as well. It still winds up costing about $5k, but you get filters and membranes that are stock parts and more gallons per-hour for the money and per amp, and you can match the solar generation to the water.

There's actually quite a bit of space for systems under the aft-cabin berths, in the engine compartment, under the salon seats, and under the master cabin berth. There's some space under the sole in the salon as well. Because it's high amp draw, I'll likely put it near the batteries under the aft berth.

There's no amount of water storage you can't run out of. Water makers are the only way to cruise, and you have to carry all the consumables and know how to repair them yourself.



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[mstrebe]

The water tankage on the 38 is split between a 34 gallon aft tank under the port berth opposite the 34 gallon diesel tank, and a 53 gallon tank under the forward berth.

After we install the watermaker, it is my intent to convert the 34 gallon aft water tank to Diesel in order to double our motoring range.

The tanks are an unusual shape, and appear to be made specially to fit the under-berth compartments. I've determined that the tank is constructed of Polyethylene, which is safe for Diesel.

It's my intent to cap off and line out all the water fittings, and simply run a single fluid hose between the tanks at their bottoms and and single vent hose between the two tanks at the top, so that they'll fill together and drain together without valving or pumping between them and so that I don't have to make any connections to the engine.

Anything I'm not considering here?

Another option would be to remove the water tank and replace it with a flexible diesel tank such as:

http://www.imtra.com/collateral/docu...a_brochure.pdf

[hellosailor]

ms-
Is there any chance that when heeled hard over, one tank will be significantly higher than the other, enough so that a "full" tank could "drain" down to the lower tank and cause it to overflow out the vent, or out the inspection port? (Presumably you will have a top mounted port?)

Adequate baffling in the tank?

Connecting line large enough to ensure fast even filling of both at once?

You still might want a way to isolate the extra tank, i.e. in case you get bad fuel, or want to run one dry and only keep the other filled?

It would just seem easier to install valving while the lines are still nicely clean dry and empty.(G)

And of course, you might want to wait a bit and make Real Damned Sure that you need that tank for diesel more than for water. Going back wouldn't be easy.

[mstrebe]

Ah, yes--heeling would be a huge problem with the tanks connected.

I suppose a simple solution would be to rig a ball valve between the tanks, so the "auxiliary" tank can always drain into the main tank on a favorable heel, but the main tank can never drain into the aux tank. I'd have to open a bypass to fill the tank or have a separate fill.

I'll have to give that some thought and see how auxiliary tanks are connected.

Thanks for pointing out the problem.

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by sailor_andy

"Where do you store the bulkhead"

The only reasonable place would be in the starboard aft cabin, if it were to be used for storage. If it were in use as a cabin, this would not be an option.

Aside from cosmetics (my wife is not fond of this colour of finish)

There are three finishes available. None great in my opinion, all rather neutral scandinavian modern. Very IKEA looking, no way around that.

There is a lot of wasted space. There is almost a foot between the back of the stove and the bulkhead. Again I asked why? Answer... sightlines! Really? On a boat? They have done some things really well with this model but they are trying to make the interior into a Condo without thinking about the practicality of extended cruising. Give me the interior of my 381 with the cockpit of the new 38 and you really have something.

Actually my wife really likes the storage areas behind the stove and sink. The chine is what dictates that the cabinetry be a bit away from the upper bulkheads as well as their mandate that all the cabinetry be installable through the companionway as complete units, but that space has been cleverly designed as a 1' deep open top storage bin that is very useful for things like condiments, paper towels, kitchen utensils etc. that do not shift around on a heel.

The port side runs the length of the salon behind the seats, and is a little less useful than the galley space, but its filling up rapidly with portable electronics.

That said, the boat suffers not from wasted space, but from a lack of storage due to optimized use of space to create living area. There are very few nooks and crannies available for storage. Under every deck plate there are mere inches of space. Even my 26' sloop had more unused space available. Under the Settes there is some space, but the optional systems all go there.

We need the three cabins, but if you don't you will be using the unused cabins as storage.

[mstrebe]

I raced Luna Sea in the San Diego Yacht Club Beneteau Cup this weekend, against 15 other cruisers in the 31..43 foot range. There was one 31, a 36, my 38, a 42, and the remainder were 41s.

It was my first ever sail race, although I did have experienced crew with me. We finished 9 out of 15, ahead of 1 42, 4 41s, the 36, and the 31 on corrected time. The 42 had a full dodger and canvas up, and it finished last. I would say that generally, the boat sails as fast as a 41. All of the boats that beat us flew spinnakers.

The first two races were buoy three leg races and the third was random leg around San Diego Bay, which was unfinished by the entire class due to extremely light air and time constraints.

We lacked a spinnaker, so downwind legs were pretty long, and those racers with them outpaced us more than the PHRF allowance would show. This race is likely the first time an Oceanis 38 has competed, so I expect the PHRF may be adjusted on both ends.

The boat easily heels onto its chine and will routinely do 7 knots without really trying. Dead-down-wind without a spinnaker in medium winds it seems to do about 40% of windspeed with the stock 105% genoa and the roller-furling main. In very light winds <5 knots, that goes up to 50%. During downwind legs, the boats with asymmetricals walked right past us.

We touched 8.4 knots in 14 knots of true wind. The boat spend most of its time doing around 7.3 in 12 knots of wind.

In extremely light winds during lulls, the boat actually performed extremely well, and we passed most of our class members irrespective of the point of sail. I'm putting this down to weight overall, as the boat is quite light.

The boat also performs exceptionally well when pointing--we were never passed on an upwind leg by any class member, and there were numerous times when we were in a dead-heat with the 41s for quite long periods of time with them unable to close the distance between us. This is with the stock roller furling mainsail that is 20% under-sized; however, most if not all of our class members had roller furling mains.

The boat's optimal pointing (genoa telltales parallel and sheeted in as well as possible, barber hauled) is across 110 degrees as other forum members had said it would be. The boat pinches much better than expected however, and we actually pinched around the docks at North Island rather than taking two tacks, putting us considerably ahead of some competitors. We were waiting for the pinching to take its toll to call a tack, but it never actually slowed down enough to change tactics and we came out of that turn with a significant advantage.

PHRF ratings used in this Beneteau sponsored event for the boat are:

PHRF Bouys: 128
PHRF RLC: 128
PHRF No Spinnaker: 145

The way the numbers play out is not uniform on all points of sail: The boats points as well as boats with a PHRF of 110, but on downwind legs even with the same style Spinnaker I expect it will lag against the same boats. Beam reaches are good, but broad reaches and running it falls off. Essentially it seems to be about 10% above average full pointing, and about 10% below average running, with a smooth curve between those points.

Essentially, when its heeled over on the chine, it beats everybody's expectations; when its flat in the water, its good that its pretty.

Asymmetrical is on order.

Luna Sea /Oceanis 38 #3

[robert sailor]

Sounds like you are having lots of fun, racing will do that to you! Just as a sideline as to how much faster new production boats are compared to the old guys...a 1963 Cal 40 rates around 114 on PHRF, and old Tartan 41 is around 99 give or take.

[lifeofreilly57]

My wife and I saw one at a recent show, her comment? the way you snore? No way I'd want an open layout.
Hmmmm.....

[DoubleWhisky]

My Dearest (for this exactly reason) ordered twin berths in owners cabin of our boat to be installed, accompanied by sizeable locker on the centerline, screening head of her berth...

[homerobarros]

Hi Everyone. My Oceanis 38, hull # 38, just hit the water today, in Florida.
Cheers
Homero

[RKsailsolo]

Originally Posted by homerobarros

Hi Everyone. My Oceanis 38, hull # 38, just hit the water today, in Florida.

Cheers

Homero

Monica is a beauty! Where will you keep her in Ft. Lauderdale?

[RKsailsolo]

mstrebe, are there any Oceanis 38s that you know of for San Diego charter? That boat is on my short list and I'd like to test it.

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by RKsailsolo

mstrebe, are there any Oceanis 38s that you know of for San Diego charter? That boat is on my short list and I'd like to test it.

None; Mine is the only 38 in San Diego as of the date of this post. Southwest Yachts has another one on order.

I'm happy to take you out some time if you'd like. Message me and we'll set it up.

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Sounds like you are having lots of fun, racing will do that to you! Just as a sideline as to how much faster new production boats are compared to the old guys...a 1963 Cal 40 rates around 114 on PHRF, and old Tartan 41 is around 99 give or take.

Sure, of course--My '68 Columbia Sabre was quite similar to the Cal 40 and very fast for its length.

The "modern technology" in the 38 isn't the fact that it's faster per se, it's that it retains the ability to make decent speed with more than double the interior room of the older style sloops like the Cal 40. Where the Cal 40 had a narrow cockpit the 38 has twice as much room, and where the 40 had only lazarettes and tanks below the cockpit the 38 has two cabins. This is all gained without a significant hit in performance. Upwind, the boats probably perform very similarly, but off the wind the Cal 40 would definitely take the lead. At least, my Sabre would have.

Consider that there's plenty of room for my family of three teens and two parents to stay aboard indefinitely. An old-style sloop would have had to have been 50+ feet long and cost more than twice as much in equivalent dollars to accomplish that.

Matt