Bermuda 40

[AKA-None]

And my c&c has a cored deck
Solid hull but cored deck

[rls8r]

jtsailjt -

I've gone through a LOT of different varnishes and wood treatments. The best I've found (so far) is Awlwood (from the folks who brought you AwlGrip paint). Apparently it was developed in Australia and AwlGrip bought the formulation.

I finished my lazarette and hatch covers with it three years ago - and without any yearly touching up they look as good as when I first finished them. Meanwhile, the things I've finished with Bristol Finish, Honey Teak and some other 'regular' high-build varnishes have been destroyed by UV. In addition, I believe that Awlwood can be used in a wide variety of humidities and temperatures. Depending on the season, I can put three or four coats on in a day. Of course, stay out of direct sun since the wood will off-gas and bubbles will form. All in all, Awlwood has made my varnishing chores much more manageable.

Also - taking a toe rail off is a monumental task. The through bolts are threaded through the toe rail and the fiberglass - and the nuts/washers (at least in my boat) are encased in fiberglass resin. They look like little insect pupa cases below the deck flange. I was thinking about taking the toe rails off my boat - but then realized that I wouldn't live long enough to finish the job and I'd have to sell the boat to pay for the work if I had others do it. What I've seen a few owners of B40s do to address the dried-out-bedding problem is to run a small bead of 5200 (or 4200) down the intersections of the toe rail and the deck.

[Enfant Du Vent]

Ahoy Reedville:


Since you're JUST getting into sailing, I assume offshore passages are not on your mind.
But when you do begin to consider them, I wouldn't put too much weight in the comment made earlier in this thread, " The Bermuda 40 is a great boat for coastal cruising as well as some offshore work."
Back in the late 60s--as I remember--a couple wrote a number of articles in Sail magazine about their circumnavigation in a Bermuda 40. So whatever passage you begin dreaming about, a Bermuda 40 will be up to it!


PS: I spent a winter crewing on a Hinckley 49. First day on board I had something to put in the trash and figured there would be a bin in the locker under the sink. Sure enough--it had a stainless bin...on a stainless steel track. Damn: what exquisite quality.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, no, they were not all like that: my 1974 Yankee 30 had cored decks and wasn't particularly thick in the layup. My 1974 Palmer Johnson Standfast 36 had a foam cored hull and balsa cored deck.

Not all builders were mired in the past in those days...

Jim

Actually the Yankee 30 by Sparkman and Stevens had at a Disp./Len of 319.22 according to Sailboatdata.com which put it at the heavy built classification which is quite thick as compare to most of today's boats

As far as coring, to me it's understood that the deck was cored since about 99% of all sailboats built in the last 50 years or so and made of fiberglass have cored decks.

Even the Bermuda 40's first built in 1959 now have cored decks first of balsa then of foam.

Most when speaking about coring are concerned with cored hulls like on some Tartans, C&C's, and Sabres plus others like Niagara.

The Bristol 27 though does have a lot of solid fiberglass in the cabin roof especially in the area of the mast which is deck stepped.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Actually the Yankee 30 by Sparkman and Stevens had at a Disp./Len of 319.22 according to Sailboatdata.com which put it at the heavy built classification which is quite thick as compare to most of today's boats

As far as coring, to me it's understood that the deck was cored since about 99% of all sailboats built in the last 50 years or so and made of fiberglass have cored decks.

Even the Bermuda 40's first built in 1959 now have cored decks first of balsa then of foam.

Most when speaking about coring are concerned with cored hulls like on some Tartans, C&C's, and Sabres plus others like Niagara.

The Bristol 27 though does have a lot of solid fiberglass in the cabin roof especially in the area of the mast which is deck stepped.

Trying to unpack this. But the early B40s decidedly didn’t have cored decks. Our family’s 1963 version was definitely solid. Not saying better or worse. Just different, and not what you’re claiming

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Actually the Yankee 30 by Sparkman and Stevens had at a Disp./Len of 319.22 according to Sailboatdata.com which put it at the heavy built classification which is quite thick as compare to most of today's boats

As far as coring, to me it's understood that the deck was cored since about 99% of all sailboats built in the last 50 years or so and made of fiberglass have cored decks.

Even the Bermuda 40's first built in 1959 now have cored decks first of balsa then of foam.

Most when speaking about coring are concerned with cored hulls like on some Tartans, C&C's, and Sabres plus others like Niagara.

The Bristol 27 though does have a lot of solid fiberglass in the cabin roof especially in the area of the mast which is deck stepped.

Sigh... Once again, thomm, you seem to be lecturing me about a boat I owned for 7 years and ~25,000 miles... and that you have never seen or been aboard... and about which you are wrong in your statements.

My boat, hull number 123, a Mk III version, had a D/l of 285, not 319 and I can report from actually measuring the hull thickness where I installed a depth sounder that in the bottom, near the center line it was around 5/8 inch thick. This is indeed thicker than that of similar sized Bennies, etc, of recent construction, but far thinner that the >1 inch thickness reported from the "old school" boats like yours.

And you should be aware that a D/L ratio says little about the layup thickness. In the Y-30's case, she had a nearly 50% ballast to displacement ratio, and that ~2.5 tons of lead influenced the D/L rather more than any extra glass in the hull would have done.


All I was trying to do was refute your statement that all boats of that era were very thick in layup and none were cored. My two 1974 boats showed that there were some builders who had already begun to build in a more modern mode... and very good boats they were!

Jim

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by rls8r

jtsailjt -

I've gone through a LOT of different varnishes and wood treatments. The best I've found (so far) is Awlwood (from the folks who brought you AwlGrip paint). Apparently it was developed in Australia and AwlGrip bought the formulation.


Also - taking a toe rail off is a monumental task. The through bolts are threaded through the toe rail and the fiberglass - and the nuts/washers (at least in my boat) are encased in fiberglass resin. They look like little insect pupa cases below the deck flange. I was thinking about taking the toe rails off my boat - but then realized that I wouldn't live long enough to finish the job and I'd have to sell the boat to pay for the work if I had others do it. What I've seen a few owners of B40s do to address the dried-out-bedding problem is to run a small bead of 5200 (or 4200) down the intersections of the toe rail and the deck.

Awlwood sounds like a great product! I’m going to look into using instead of the Cetol I’ve been using on caprails.

Yes, I realize what a monumental task it is and that’s why I pointed it out as something worth looking for in boats you are considering for purchase. I agree with you that I wouldn’t spend that kind of money on it but there are owners who have.

The bead of 4200 idea sounds like a good one to me. Not as good as bedding the whole rail in it but much simpler and more cost effective.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Awlwood sounds like a great product.

not from my observation. the awlwood finish has become cloudy on several boats that used it at my marina. i would advise looking to a teak sealer like semco if you are trying to avoid varnish .. understandable with a B40. many have had good luck with it.

[Reedville]

I went to see the boat last Saturday and I got some photos of the engine. The problem with the engine a 1986 Perkins is I don't know how may hours are on it. But it does appear to be well maintained. Thoughts?

https://www.boats.com/sailing-boats/...ull-7-8389486/

[sailingharry]

My late father's boat, a 1978(??) Shucker 440, had a Perkins 4-236. It had continuous maintenance and parts replacement as needed, but had never been rebuilt. As a motor sailor, it motored FAR more than it sailed. They did 20 trips from the Keys to the Chesapeake and back, a full Great Loop, and two trips to the Great Lakes -- and that was after they bought it in 1998! I think the engine was north of 10,000 hours. I can't imagine a SAILboat, 6 years newer, having more hours unless they really rode her hard.


Diesels in general last much longer than most people are willing to let them (they replace them "to be safe" or "it's time"), and a Perkins runs far slower than most modern engines so it lasts even longer. Also, parts are super available (TransAtlantic Diesel is one highly endorsed supplier).

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by Reedville

I went to see the boat last Saturday and I got some photos of the engine. The problem with the engine a 1986 Perkins is I don't know how may hours are on it. But it does appear to be well maintained. Thoughts?

https://www.boats.com/sailing-boats/...ull-7-8389486/

Broker or no broker? If no broker, try out the engine. That means running it up to operating temperature, 20 minutes or so, under load. See if it overheats, see how much it leaks, see what RPM is required to stay at cruising speed. Look at the oil after running. Look at the engine compartment for fuel leaks.

If there is a broker, you are F'ed, you probably have to put a contract on the boat to test it. Make a contingency for a sea trial and have it before the $1,200 survey.

The best way to never buy a boat is to pick a particular make and model and expect it to be in great shape. There are literally dozens of boats you could buy to enjoy sailing on the Chesapeake Bay. You already missed one season - 2022, in your search. At your age, how many seasons can you afford to miss?

I like the Bermuda 40, too. I would love to own one. On the other hand, I have enjoyed multiple seasons without one.

When you buy a boat, you are buying a collection of systems and potential experiences. There is no perfect boat and many boats could provide you with the same experiences and sensations.

[Reedville]

Further to my previous email the decks are stained stained. The broker is checking with the seller but it appears to be permanent. Also the auto pilot seems to be very old.

So I was wondering if anybody could give me ball park estimates to repaint the deck and hull and to replace the autopilot?

Thanks

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by Reedville

Further to my previous email the decks are stained stained. The broker is checking with the seller but it appears to be permanent. Also the auto pilot seems to be very old.

So I was wondering if anybody could give me ball park estimates to repaint the deck and hull and to replace the autopilot?

Thanks

DIY, not much. I painted my decks and cockpit floor with nonskid. You can replace the autopilot with a wheelpilot yourself. It is not that difficult with rudimentary 12v electrical skills. I installed a Raymarine Wheelpilot myself.

For older boats, these are normal maintenance and repair items.

[Jim Cate]

The best way to never buy a boat is to pick a particular make and model and expect it to be in great shape. There are literally dozens of boats you could buy to enjoy sailing on the Chesapeake Bay. You already missed one season - 2022, in your search. At your age, how many seasons can you afford to miss?

I like the Bermuda 40, too. I would love to own one. On the other hand, I have enjoyed multiple seasons without one.

Good points in the above! You need to decide if you are interested in going sailing or in enjoying pride of ownership of a specific design. If the latter, continue with your directed search. If the former, a change in strategy is indicated.

One's time on earth is limited, a factor that should be obvious to us all. It certainly has become important to me at 85.

Jim

[Sailor Sailor]

The hull is a lot more work and money. DIY, Alexseal has gotten good reviews. You need to haul out and tent the boat with plastic, erect scaffolding, sand, prime and paint.

Oxidized gelcoat can be wet sanded, compounded, and waxed.