Bestevaer 49 vs Orion 49 - which is the better aluminum pilothouse?

[Walawala11]

I am interested in building an aluminum pilothouse cruising boat. I’ve narrowed choices to Bestevaer 49 and Orion 49. I have ruled out boats from Garcia, Boreal, and Onvi which do not have the pilothouse layout I am looking for. I am doubtful designs from Koopmans, Hoek, or van de Stad will work.

The Bestevaer 49 is designed by Gerald Dykstra and built by KM Yachts - very accomplished and renowned for its aluminum boats.

https://www.dykstra-na.nl/designs/katharos/
https://www.kmy.nl

The Orino 49 is designed by Kees van de Stadt at Satellite Yacht Design (no relation to van de Stadt Design) and built by Gebroeders van Enkhuizen - also accomplished, smaller yard than KM Yachts, with more experience building in steel than aluminum.

https://www.yacht-design.nl/designs/...ion49-cruiser/
https://gebrvanenkhuizen.nl

I have closely followed this forum’s discussions on pilothouses and the building of Noelex77’s Bestevaer 49 - truly outstanding.

I am interested in thoughts on how the Bestevaer 49 and Orion 49 might compare in terms of sailing performance, long-term livability, and sturdiness?

Thank you.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Walawala.

[noelex 77]

Welcome to forum Walawala, and congratulations on starting the journey towards a new boat. The planning is a very exciting time, almost as good as gradually seeing your wishes come to life as the build progresses.

I don't know about the relative performance sailing differences between the Orion and the Bestevaer. The Bestevaer and I imagine the Orion are custom boats, which means you can specify anything you want. Thinner or thicker aluminium, fixed, lifting or swing keel with multitude of drafts, different sail plans with aluminium or carbon spars. The ends (bow and stern can be left bare keeping weight at a minimum or fitted out increasing the accommodation) etc etc. These decisions will make more difference to sailing performance than any fundamental difference between the models, which on paper look otherwise very similar.

Building a custom yacht is huge commitment in time and money so sit down with each boatbuilder and make sure you are comfortable with their approach. You also need to look very carefully at other boats they have built, crawl around in the hidden areas and assess the quality of the work. If you are serious, boatbuilders often encourage you to talk directly with the boat designer as part of the build process. They will be the best people to discuss the expected performance differences.

Good luck. Send me a private message if you have any specific questions.

[Walawala11]

Thanks for your insights and offer to reach out directly. I am trying to get to the KMY open yards in a couple weeks. I will thoroughly go through the Bestevaers and Stadships at that time. I had planned to meet both KMY and Gebroeders van Enkhuizen at the HISWA show this weekend, but unfortunately the event was cancelled due to COVID restrictions.

[Caleb_Grey]

Originally Posted by Walawala11

I am interested in building an aluminum pilothouse cruising boat. I’ve narrowed choices to Bestevaer 49 and Orion 49. I have ruled out boats from Garcia, Boreal, and Onvi which do not have the pilothouse layout I am looking for. I am doubtful designs from Koopmans, Hoek, or van de Stad will work.

The Bestevaer 49 is designed by Gerald Dykstra and built by KM Yachts - very accomplished and renowned for its aluminum boats.

https://www.dykstra-na.nl/designs/katharos/
https://www.kmy.nl

The Orino 49 is designed by Kees van de Stadt at Satellite Yacht Design (no relation to van de Stadt Design) and built by Gebroeders van Enkhuizen - also accomplished, smaller yard than KM Yachts, with more experience building in steel than aluminum.

https://www.yacht-design.nl/designs/...ion49-cruiser/
https://gebrvanenkhuizen.nl

I have closely followed this forum’s discussions on pilothouses and the building of Noelex77’s Bestevaer 49 - truly outstanding.

I am interested in thoughts on how the Bestevaer 49 and Orion 49 might compare in terms of sailing performance, long-term livability, and sturdiness?

Thank you.

Distant Shores are doing this right now
https://youtu.be/esYdVPavwAI

[Walawala11]

Thanks Caleb for pointing this out. I saw Distant Shores YouTube videos with KM Yachts, and messaged them through YouTube. I think we may have similar objectives/requirements, although I believe they are looking for two cabins and I want three. I'm interested to see where they end up. I could be a potential collaboration showing the market demand for a Stadtship 49 :-)

[kryg]

Both boats are solid, it comes down to detail and cost plus the eye of the beholder. I like the Orino 49 it's nicer on the eye design. However, from my experience the one draw back it seems to have a swing keel when the keel is extended it leaves a slot that acts like a sailing with a bucket tied to it as the slots have proven to reduce the performance of the boats that have swinging keels. I would go for fixed keel enclosed in Aluminium as I have on my boat the lead is encased and keep is one solid structure not independent of the boat's build. In its all about time money and finally personal taste. Good luck with your up and coming, exciting adventure into semi custom boat building.

PS, one last word, go or the boat with the lightest displacement. As a reference, my boat is a 50' Aluminium, displacement is 8.5 tons. Granted, it does not have a pilothouse, however that should not add too much to the displacement, in my experience I would aim for a design around 10 to 12 tons max 12.5 tons. You will enjoy sparkling performance.

Originally Posted by Walawala11

I am interested in building an aluminum pilothouse cruising boat. I’ve narrowed choices to Bestevaer 49 and Orion 49. I have ruled out boats from Garcia, Boreal, and Onvi which do not have the pilothouse layout I am looking for. I am doubtful designs from Koopmans, Hoek, or van de Stad will work.

The Bestevaer 49 is designed by Gerald Dykstra and built by KM Yachts - very accomplished and renowned for its aluminum boats.

https://www.dykstra-na.nl/designs/katharos/
https://www.kmy.nl

The Orino 49 is designed by Kees van de Stadt at Satellite Yacht Design (no relation to van de Stadt Design) and built by Gebroeders van Enkhuizen - also accomplished, smaller yard than KM Yachts, with more experience building in steel than aluminum.

https://www.yacht-design.nl/designs/...ion49-cruiser/
https://gebrvanenkhuizen.nl

I have closely followed this forum’s discussions on pilothouses and the building of Noelex77’s Bestevaer 49 - truly outstanding.

I am interested in thoughts on how the Bestevaer 49 and Orion 49 might compare in terms of sailing performance, long-term livability, and sturdiness?

Thank you.

[Grattaway]

you could google tana vika for an alternative - its a dudley dix design which I like. Dudley can give you more details if you are interested

Wayne

[kryg]

Thanks Grattaway. As you reached out I'm just passing on my limited experiences. There is no need on my part to look at other boats as - I'm supper happy with Skoiern IV so much, so I have had it 33 years, And once every 10 years conduct a total refurbishment, the 3rd one is nearly completed this month.

[Walawala11]

Thanks Kryg and Grattaway. I will certainly keep weight in mind during the design process. The Bestevaer 49 and Orion 49 are both heavier than 12.5 tons. Also, thank you for directing me to Dudley Dix designs.

[kryg]

Happy to help, enjoy the journey.

Originally Posted by Walawala11

Thanks Kryg and Grattaway. I will certainly keep weight in mind during the design process. The Bestevaer 49 and Orion 49 are both heavier than 12.5 tons. Also, thank you for directing me to Dudley Dix designs.

[250224]

There is also the Viator Explorer 42 DS (54 model as draft). Unfortunately the website https://www.viatormarine.com/viatorexplorer42ds is german only (but the page has a link to ask for an english pdf). Quite interesting technology-wise. -- If I had the funds I'd go for a Bestevaer/KM yacht (btw. the open yards promises to be interesting, Vinson, hint hint..).

[Manateeman]

You might want to consider twin keels. We are very pleased with Ted Brewer 60 design. Our only change would be to the forward cabin and head arrangement.
We added a large permanent Bimini for solar and a bench seat just forward of the mizzenmast. I would never own a centerboard after living with all the advantages of twin keels.
Captain Mark and his manatee crew of professional boatbuilders.

[Walawala11]

Thanks for pointing out this point. I believe it's designed by Berckmeyer Yacht Design. I really like that it is electric, although I think electric bluewater monohull boats by still be a few years away. The BM 49 Pilothouse that was featured on the no-frills-sailing.com is also interesting (Interior Fitting: Berckemeyer BM49 Pilot House |).

Originally Posted by blu3534

There is also the Viator Explorer 42 DS (54 model as draft). Unfortunately the website https://www.viatormarine.com/viatorexplorer42ds is german only (but the page has a link to ask for an english pdf). Quite interesting technology-wise. -- If I had the funds I'd go for a Bestevaer/KM yacht (btw. the open yards promises to be interesting, Vinson, hint hint..).

[Walawala11]

Manateeman, I had not really considered twin keels. It's not something I see very often. I'm trying to keep things relatively simple, so I was planning on a fin keel. I will investigate further. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Manateeman

You might want to consider twin keels. We are very pleased with Ted Brewer 60 design. Our only change would be to the forward cabin and head arrangement.
We added a large permanent Bimini for solar and a bench seat just forward of the mizzenmast. I would never own a centerboard after living with all the advantages of twin keels.
Captain Mark and his manatee crew of professional boatbuilders.