Blue water boat vs modified coast cruiser

[Bowdrie]

For one or two people wanting to do some extended cruising in a smaller>medium size boat and do so without "breaking the bank", so to speak, my more-or-less "stock" answer is:
"Get something designed by Carl Alberg".
If more "cargo carrying" ability is needed, (everything including the kitchen sink,) then a Westsail 32.

[Pete the Cat]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

This is a really good point. However, IMHO it's foolish for anyone to sail into the deep blue without explicitly knowing every square millimeter of their boat. I would never depend on a particular boat brand. Even some the popular brands have stock builds and custom builds.

So, I am hoping that when the OP states, "upgrading" a boat for ocean sailing the OP is implying things like checking for backing plates (on every piece of deck mounted hardware), properly bedded deck hardware (e.g core removed & filled with epoxy filler at mounting point), chain plates, beefier standing rigging, etc.

Knowing your boat under stress is really really important. I have an Ericson 32-200 that is very good on San Francisco Bay if I reef early and it is a nice trade off for being rather finicky with helm--requires a lot of attention not to stall--but I can pass all the other day sailors. I have a Tartan 37 which is a much better boat for offshore stuff (I sailed it from San Francisoc to Maine via the Canal) and I would call it a blue water boat: comfortable, reasonably fast and is less jittery even with the auto pilot driving. Things have changed much since the Chichesters and Roths were sailing: we have instant weather we really need to use offshore to avoid putting yourself at risk. I managed a two year cruise and only had a few days of 30+ winds and +17 ft seas because I anticipated. I do not think there is anything in a Tayana 37 that is going to save you from the vagaries of the offshore environment. It is going to be how well the boat is maintained, your own knowledge of the limits of the boat, and your strategy. The worst and most obnoxious part of the trip from SF to Maine was not the multiple days of near gale off the quarter, it was 25Kts and 6 ft square seas trying to go to weather off the New Jersey shore. It is really about a well maintained boat, owned by a skipper who knows it well and someone who uses technology to think ahead. Buy a trawler for the loop and a different boat for cruising. The two experiences do not fit one boat.

[Icarus]

People cruise and cross oceans in all sorts of vessels from 7' to 60'
Some have engines, some have not
It comes down to personal choice and cruising philosophy.
Good luck

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

This book should be on the reading list of every sailor.
https://www.amazon.com/Desirable-Und.../dp/0393337189

The sea hasn't changed since Biblical times, (that I know of).
What's newer is not necessarily good, what's older is not necessarily bad.

Yes but nautical design has and many things in that book are dated ( I have a copy )

[NormanMartin]

The sailor matters more than the boat.
How you train yourself and how fit you are are going to make or break your adventure.

[Messing About]

Originally Posted by Roland01

I am at a crossroads on what boat I am going to buy in a few years time. I want to do things like cross the Atlantic/Pacific/Hawaii and the milk run in the Pacific, but also do the Great Loop, which is the first major expedition. I'll have the luxury of being able to choose the weather window of all my expeditions, and I'll be able to go during the trade winds. I'm interested coastal cruising/Keys/Caribbean/Bahamas as well.



If I go during a good weather window can I get away with a modified Catalina 38 for ocean crossings since I'm also interested in the Great Loop/coastal cruising or due to safety,comfort and other variables or am I better off buying an ocean cruiser like the Tayana 37. My budget for a sailboat will be around $100,000. Is some sort of hybrid between blue water boat and cruiser the way to go or due to logistics and safety am I better off just getting a blue water boat and buying a cheap loop boat and selling it after I'm done. Any help would be much appreciated.

I have a similar dilemma. I’m likely less than a year from buying. I will sell my house and everything in it, keeping only my 5th wheel and truck for off season living. Will live aboard and cruise at least 6 months a year as I get comfy as a sailing skipper. My budget is 150-200k. My question is: do I go with a newer boat ;10-12 years old) with lesser use but needing lots cruising gear installed or go with a 20 year old boat for $50k less that’s nicely equipped but all of the systems are already 20 years old?

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Messing About

I have a similar dilemma. I’m likely less than a year from buying. I will sell my house and everything in it, keeping only my 5th wheel and truck for off season living. Will live aboard and cruise at least 6 months a year as I get comfy as a sailing skipper. My budget is 150-200k. My question is: do I go with a newer boat ;10-12 years old) with lesser use but needing lots cruising gear installed or go with a 20 year old boat for $50k less that’s nicely equipped but all of the systems are already 20 years old?

By systems, I assume you mean:
Engine
Sails
Electrics
Electronics
Plumbing

... of those, I wouldn't worry much about electronics. They are outdated the day they're installed. Either live with older electronics that work fine, or update them as you see fit. Depth sounder, autopilot, AIS transponder, VHF and HF (if you're going far and wide) are essential in my book. Radar is great, too, but you can live without it (I know others will disagree ...). Wind instruments, speed log -- both nice to have, but not essential.

Sails should be newish and well made.
Not much to go wrong with plumbing, and easily fixable if it does. Of course, this category includes thruhulls, which are an exception to aforementioned.

The other two systems that must be in good shape are engine and electrics. I think the first is obvious to most new owners, but the latter is often overlooked. Newer boats are generally going to score better in these categories.

Naturally, a newer engine that's been well cared for is going to take care of you.

Older boats often have nonsensical and sometimes borderline dangerous electrical systems. You want neat, logical runs for both 12v and shore power. Good quality breakers, corrosion-free connections, the right gauge wiring (and properly color coded). It can be a nightmare if you don't. Trust me, I know.

I'm not sure this qualifies as a "system" -- but more important than any of the above, really, is the rigging, particularly the standing rigging -- including chainplates. The rig needs to be carefully inspected. If you know what you're doing, you can do it yourself. But if not, get a good rigger.

Stanchions and cleats should be properly installed, and regardless of what anyone says on this thread, be bedded with beefy backing plates.

Running rigging is also important, but that's easy enough to examine and swap out as needed.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by sneuman

By systems, I assume you mean:
Engine
Sails
Electrics
Electronics
Plumbing

... of those, I wouldn't worry much about electronics. They are outdated the day they're installed. Either live with older electronics that work fine, or update them as you see fit. Depth sounder, autopilot, AIS transponder, VHF and HF (if you're going far and wide) are essential in my book. Radar is great, too, but you can live without it (I know others will disagree ...). Wind instruments, speed log -- both nice to have, but not essential.

Sails should be newish and well made.
Not much to go wrong with plumbing, and easily fixable if it does. Of course, this category includes thruhulls, which are an exception to aforementioned.

The other two systems that must be in good shape are engine and electrics. I think the first is obvious to most new owners, but the latter is often overlooked. Newer boats are generally going to score better in these categories.

Naturally, a newer engine that's been well cared for is going to take care of you.

Older boats often have nonsensical and sometimes borderline dangerous electrical systems. You want neat, logical runs for both 12v and shore power. Good quality breakers, corrosion-free connections, the right gauge wiring (and properly color coded). It can be a nightmare if you don't. Trust me, I know.

I'm not sure this qualifies as a "system" -- but more important than any of the above, really, is the rigging, particularly the standing rigging -- including chainplates. The rig needs to be carefully inspected. If you know what you're doing, you can do it yourself. But if not, get a good rigger.

Stanchions and cleats should be properly installed, and regardless of what anyone says on this thread, be bedded with beefy backing plates.

Running rigging is also important, but that's easy enough to examine and swap out as needed.

Your opinion of course is just that , your opinion.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Your opinion of course is just that , your opinion.

I believe that goes without saying. I'd argue though that it happens to be an informed opinion. 10,000 miles+ offshore (Atlantic, Caribbean, Asian waters), USCG 100-ton Master (current), 40 years on boats.

[BMD21]

OK, I'm late to the party, but I have an opinion. And I've sailed across the Pacific and done most of the Great Loop (not the rivers), all in a sailboat.


The best boat for the Great Loop is a powerboat, including the Bahamas. One does not sail on the Great Loop, one moters. And the only stretch in which one could use sail power is crossing the Gulf Stream. Both the Bahamas and the Great Loop are shallow.



To sail the Pacific you need a sailboat. With a deep keel. Different from the Great Loop.



Boris

[nextis12]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

This book should be on the reading list of every sailor.
https://www.amazon.com/Desirable-Und.../dp/0393337189

The sea hasn't changed since Biblical times, (that I know of).
What's newer is not necessarily good, what's older is not necessarily bad.

That book was published in 1987. The sea hasn’t changed but modern materials, production methods (both good and bad), navigation, weather forecasting have changed significantly.

[Messing About]

Originally Posted by sneuman

By systems, I assume you mean:
Engine
Sails
Electrics
Electronics
Plumbing

... of those, I wouldn't worry much about electronics. They are outdated the day they're installed. Either live with older electronics that work fine, or update them as you see fit. Depth sounder, autopilot, AIS transponder, VHF and HF (if you're going far and wide) are essential in my book. Radar is great, too, but you can live without it (I know others will disagree ...). Wind instruments, speed log -- both nice to have, but not essential.

Sails should be newish and well made.
Not much to go wrong with plumbing, and easily fixable if it does. Of course, this category includes thruhulls, which are an exception to aforementioned.

The other two systems that must be in good shape are engine and electrics. I think the first is obvious to most new owners, but the latter is often overlooked. Newer boats are generally going to score better in these categories.

Naturally, a newer engine that's been well cared for is going to take care of you.

Older boats often have nonsensical and sometimes borderline dangerous electrical systems. You want neat, logical runs for both 12v and shore power. Good quality breakers, corrosion-free connections, the right gauge wiring (and properly color coded). It can be a nightmare if you don't. Trust me, I know.

I'm not sure this qualifies as a "system" -- but more important than any of the above, really, is the rigging, particularly the standing rigging -- including chainplates. The rig needs to be carefully inspected. If you know what you're doing, you can do it yourself. But if not, get a good rigger.

Stanchions and cleats should be properly installed, and regardless of what anyone says on this thread, be bedded with beefy backing plates.

Running rigging is also important, but that's easy enough to examine and swap out as needed.

Thank you. I found this to be well thought, logical and helpful.