Bluewater 38-42' choices on a budget

[malbert73]

If one ever drops to your price range, Tartan 40s (of course I’m biased) have the S&S design genius of great light air capabilities as well as blue water capability.
Private aft double berth. Only 1 head to maintain. Many have a scheel keel. (Mine has a CB.)

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by malbert73

If one ever drops to your price range, Tartan 40s (of course I’m biased) have the S&S design genius of great light air capabilities as well as blue water capability.
Private aft double berth. Only 1 head to maintain. Many have a scheel keel. (Mine has a CB.)

Thanks. I have looked at a few 41/42s but there are not many on the West coast. Haven't seen any 40s listed, at least not under $100K

[uhtflogan]

Hi,

We are in your area and have a Vancouver 42.

We are probably in the last summer before we sell, so if you wanted to chat give a shout. We're looking at one last hurrah this August as far as Malcolm, teenagers refusing long sails now, etc. Or if you just would like to see one, we are Victoria area and out Desolation / Broughtons August. Probably a bit over your price range, but not hugely, but then we have a brand new Yan Mar, with offshore (double Racor, gooseneck anti-siphon custom, etc) preparation features, as well, and that's why. Ours is cold molded mahogany, aft cockpit, no teak decks, and it was custom built for offshore in Richmond BC in the 1990s (so large s/s water tanks).

In general, about the Vancouver 42s though, here's what I'd say, good and bad.

We don't have (and don't think we should have a bow thruster), and she is a beast. Coming into a dock with any kind of wind is a real adventure because below a certain speed you lose control pretty quickly. Not a great coastal cruising boat if you need to be in and out of tight docks often. They are really built for bluewater and not local summer conditions inside Vancouver Island.

Other downsides, they don't have anything like the room you're describing inside for an offshore set up. We have a main cabin up front with a double and a single bunk on top. You could probably retrofit to make a roomy double, but she's no Cutwater up there. The head is small (we don't use a shower for offshore, because, well, we don't, but it was equipped for one, but you'd have to be skinny and it's tight). Just functional, nothing else. There's a good double pull out berth opposite the galley, that we actually tend to use as the main, and there's another single berth in the salon. You could add a second pretty easily. But the original aft cabin you really are going to lose off shore. Ours was taken out and filled with massive battery storage. S/s water tanks are port and starboard, and those boats have nice, roomy engine rooms. Basically, if you're looking at 2 couples, it's a double in the galley and a double in the main bow, shared tiny head, and room maybe for another adult on the salon berth, with any kind of privacy. She's not bad single handing under way. All the lines are easy and she's on furlers. You need two people to dock or anchor absolutely.

The cold molded is amazing. It is one skookum boat. We got caught during COVID when the weather reports were pretty unreliable wind against current (ouch) at 20-25 knots coming up the Malaspina to Desolation, and, while it was uncomfortable, we were never worried that she couldn't handle that and more. If I had to choose a boat for heavy weather, I would choose a Vancouver 42 no question.

The downside is they aren't super at light wind sailing. For an offshore boat, good, but not light sailing as in coastal BC cruising. Our last was a 28' Viking Ontario, and that would sail in a whisper of breeze. The Vancouver needs a few knots realistically.

They are also tough boats for a fixed solar set up. Because they are canoe stern, there's not a lot of space on her tail (which is also where radar is set up). We looked into a bimini set up, but offshore in heavy weather the windsheer we think would act as a parasail. For the same reason we took off the bimini that came with her and just dress appropriately. You could do bat wings. We looked into that but decided to go with a Bluetti instead, so the wind and engine feed the main sets of batteries, and the Bluetti has about 4 days of capacity on a single solar charge to run all our electronics, which is what we really care about. We went CMAP with a GPS integrated iPad linked to our AIS B, plus back up Hummingbird, older radar, etc. CMAP off AIS works well for us.

The other upside downside of the Vancouver 42s is that they have a really high freeboard. Great offshore and in heavy weather--as long as you don't fall off. We've done MOB drills in calm weather in Pendrell Sound, and the reality is that even in flat seas getting back in is tough. We invested in one of those Australian MOB ladders where you could also parbuckle someone up using the halyard, but honestly it's useless. We clip in religiously, because you go over in offshore weather, that's it. I don't think you're getting anyone back on board realistically.

We have a fair amount of commercial fishing gear on board, and we're big fans of those (we inherited them). Things like a diesel Dickinson stove and a Delta commercial windlass. As a result, we've been able to be out in off season very comfortably, and on long sails in chilly conditions the Dickinson is great. Keeps the bones warm.

Dunno. Sounds to me I guess a bit like you're looking for something though a bit more luxury than an offshore equipped Vancouver 42, which tends to be a pretty practical and very heavy weather focused boat. She's not beautiful coming into marina. And she's a ship. We get the wall eye for sure sometimes from the folks with white leather seats. But the old salts give us the thumbs up, so we'll take it.

Fair winds out there friend, and give a shout if you'd like to see a Vancouver 42, even just to rule out that you're looking for something else.

[uhtflogan]

PS--uhtflogan@gmail.com

[kd410se]

I’m somewhat surprised that only one mention for the Morgan 382/3/4 has been made… and that mention came from a guy who has circumnavigated in one.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by kd410se

I’m somewhat surprised that only one mention for the Morgan 382/3/4 has been made… and that mention came from a guy who has circumnavigated in one.

I like the looks of the Morgan 382/3/4, and it could probably fit the bill, but it really doesn't offer that much more space or sailing ability than our current C&C, nearly identical layout with the addition of a shower stall and wider quarterberth. We have looked at several at the dock, but have not been aboard.

The Morgan 43 is the closest in meeting our needs, but they are not that common.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by uhtflogan

Hi,

We are in your area and have a Vancouver 42.

We are probably in the last summer before we sell, so if you wanted to chat give a shout. We're looking at one last hurrah this August as far as Malcolm, teenagers refusing long sails now, etc. Or if you just would like to see one, we are Victoria area and out Desolation / Broughtons August. Probably a bit over your price range, but not hugely, but then we have a brand new Yan Mar, with offshore (double Racor, gooseneck anti-siphon custom, etc) preparation features, as well, and that's why. Ours is cold molded mahogany, aft cockpit, no teak decks, and it was custom built for offshore in Richmond BC in the 1990s (so large s/s water tanks).

In general, about the Vancouver 42s though, here's what I'd say, good and bad.

We don't have (and don't think we should have a bow thruster), and she is a beast. Coming into a dock with any kind of wind is a real adventure because below a certain speed you lose control pretty quickly. Not a great coastal cruising boat if you need to be in and out of tight docks often. They are really built for bluewater and not local summer conditions inside Vancouver Island.

Other downsides, they don't have anything like the room you're describing inside for an offshore set up. We have a main cabin up front with a double and a single bunk on top. You could probably retrofit to make a roomy double, but she's no Cutwater up there. The head is small (we don't use a shower for offshore, because, well, we don't, but it was equipped for one, but you'd have to be skinny and it's tight). Just functional, nothing else. There's a good double pull out berth opposite the galley, that we actually tend to use as the main, and there's another single berth in the salon. You could add a second pretty easily. But the original aft cabin you really are going to lose off shore. Ours was taken out and filled with massive battery storage. S/s water tanks are port and starboard, and those boats have nice, roomy engine rooms. Basically, if you're looking at 2 couples, it's a double in the galley and a double in the main bow, shared tiny head, and room maybe for another adult on the salon berth, with any kind of privacy. She's not bad single handing under way. All the lines are easy and she's on furlers. You need two people to dock or anchor absolutely.

The cold molded is amazing. It is one skookum boat. We got caught during COVID when the weather reports were pretty unreliable wind against current (ouch) at 20-25 knots coming up the Malaspina to Desolation, and, while it was uncomfortable, we were never worried that she couldn't handle that and more. If I had to choose a boat for heavy weather, I would choose a Vancouver 42 no question.

The downside is they aren't super at light wind sailing. For an offshore boat, good, but not light sailing as in coastal BC cruising. Our last was a 28' Viking Ontario, and that would sail in a whisper of breeze. The Vancouver needs a few knots realistically.

They are also tough boats for a fixed solar set up. Because they are canoe stern, there's not a lot of space on her tail (which is also where radar is set up). We looked into a bimini set up, but offshore in heavy weather the windsheer we think would act as a parasail. For the same reason we took off the bimini that came with her and just dress appropriately. You could do bat wings. We looked into that but decided to go with a Bluetti instead, so the wind and engine feed the main sets of batteries, and the Bluetti has about 4 days of capacity on a single solar charge to run all our electronics, which is what we really care about. We went CMAP with a GPS integrated iPad linked to our AIS B, plus back up Hummingbird, older radar, etc. CMAP off AIS works well for us.

The other upside downside of the Vancouver 42s is that they have a really high freeboard. Great offshore and in heavy weather--as long as you don't fall off. We've done MOB drills in calm weather in Pendrell Sound, and the reality is that even in flat seas getting back in is tough. We invested in one of those Australian MOB ladders where you could also parbuckle someone up using the halyard, but honestly it's useless. We clip in religiously, because you go over in offshore weather, that's it. I don't think you're getting anyone back on board realistically.

We have a fair amount of commercial fishing gear on board, and we're big fans of those (we inherited them). Things like a diesel Dickinson stove and a Delta commercial windlass. As a result, we've been able to be out in off season very comfortably, and on long sails in chilly conditions the Dickinson is great. Keeps the bones warm.

Dunno. Sounds to me I guess a bit like you're looking for something though a bit more luxury than an offshore equipped Vancouver 42, which tends to be a pretty practical and very heavy weather focused boat. She's not beautiful coming into marina. And she's a ship. We get the wall eye for sure sometimes from the folks with white leather seats. But the old salts give us the thumbs up, so we'll take it.

Fair winds out there friend, and give a shout if you'd like to see a Vancouver 42, even just to rule out that you're looking for something else.

Thanks so much for the thorough review of the Vancouver 42. I was not aware that some were built locally. It's another boat that I've only seen from a distance, and there are quite a few variations. I would be interested in seeing your boat, although realise that it won't represent a typical production build. I'll send you a PM.

We recently had a tour of a very nicely restored Kelly Peterson 44, and it has now moved up our list, as it has very few negatives, and ticks more boxes than most, but it remains to be seen if we can find one within our budget. As with many Taiwan built boats (Vancouver 42s also I think), tanks are an issue if they haven't been replaced, as they will probably need to be soon...

[robert sailor]

Sad part is that if a KP or many other boats that are on your list do fall to your budget number you wouldn’t have enough money to refit them. You’d be better off with a cruiser racer like an Ericson 38-200 which would allow you to purchase a really nice one. Morgan 38 is not a bad choice either. I think for your budget your going to have to stay between 38-40 feet and you’ll be shopping for older boats. Nothing wrong with the choices you have for the budget you’ve set.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Sad part is that if a KP or many other boats that are on your list do fall to your budget number you wouldn’t have enough money to refit them. You’d be better off with a cruiser racer like an Ericson 38-200 which would allow you to purchase a really nice one. Morgan 38 is not a bad choice either. I think for your budget your going to have to stay between 38-40 feet and you’ll be shopping for older boats. Nothing wrong with the choices you have for the budget you’ve set.

You may be right, but boats like the Ericson 38-200 are often listed in the upper range of my budget, and are rarely equipped for distance cruising, so would still require an additional investment. Each time I look at 38' I come away thinking it's not enough of an upgrade from 35' and that we'd be looking to move up again in a few years...

[theseaward]

Originally Posted by MJH

When I spent five years doing my offshore (bluewater) boat search I built an Excel database of over 3500 boats in available rigging/keel variations, computed their ratios (SA/DISP, DISP/LWL, COMFORT, CAPSIZE, L/B) plus other features I wanted to AVOID, ie, v-drive, saildrive, bowsprit, bobstay, centerboard, nonlead keel, non FBG, teak decks, etc. I think you need to do somewhat the same. Then sort it for your ideal boat.

Following this thread with interest as we are looking for something quite similar (and also located on Vancouver Island!).

MJH, I’ve been putting together a spreadsheet of my own but it sounds like yours is miles ahead of mine, I’d be very interested to take a look if you’re happy to share what you created?

[alctel]

I know you said you excluded hunters but what about the Hunter 37 (the cherubini designed cutter rigged boat from the late 70s)

Built like a tank, sails well with a fin keel, nice layout inside (has a separate shower), good tankage and has really nice lines. They are also pretty undercosted a lot of the time. Only thing it doesn't have is an aft cabin but that is gonna be tough to find at your price point and other requirements.

[sv_isara]

Originally Posted by sgwright

Hello all,

We've been looking several years for our next boat, with plans to sail from BC to Mexico, and eventually points beyond. Our current C&C 35mk2 is a great sailing boat, but a bit too small for extended cruising. We've sailed about 7000NM over the past 4 summers, including a 2800NM passage from Hawaii to BC, and are ready to head south. Here are some of the top criteria for our next boat, which we'd prefer to find somewhere between BC and Mexico.

1. Fin keel capable of good windward* AND light air ability, ie: no long/full keel or shoal draft or centreboard designs. *Able to point to ~40 AWA in 10kts of TWS and make ~5kts STW in calm seas.
2. Minimum of three seagoing berths, ie: two settees plus aft or quarterberth.
3. Head with shower, separate shower highly desirable.
4. Cutter or solent rigged sloop preferred, although I can add inner stay if necessary.
5. Decent tankage of at least 150L fuel, 300L water.
6. Private double aft cabin preferred.

Here are some of the top boats on our list, bearing in mind that some will only fit our budget in a somewhat "project" condition. Budget is ~50K USD, allowing for an additional 30-40K of upgrades to make her ready. My preference is to find a boat with solid bones in need of some upgrades so I can choose to fit her out to suit our needs. I am capable of doing all necessary work. I know some of these boats are out of reach, but one can dream.

The list (those with * are most likely to have candidates within budget)

*C&C Landfall 38, 39, 42, 43
Cheoy Lee 44
Cheoy Lee 38/41 (Pedrick)
Kelly Peterson 44/46
Mariner/Westsail 39
Moody 376
*Morgan 382/3/4
*Morgan 43/44/45 (45 has dubious seaberths)
Niagara 35/42
Norseman 447
Passport 37/40
Perry/Aloha 41
Hylas 44
*Tayana Vancouver 42 (aft or centre cockpit)
Valiant 40 (prefer to avoid the blister issue though)

Happy to hear from owners of any of the above, or similar designs that meet the criteria, although we have already excluded the following for various reasons:
Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, Pearson and similar coastal cruisers.
Fast Passage 39, Pacific Seacraft 37, Sceptre 41

Thanks!

I see youve crossed Hunters off your list but the Legend series are generally good. My boat -Legend 40.5 - has everything on your list except- getting higher in price (80-90k), shoal draft (but points easily to 35 apparent in the ocean - with 30 year old sails and a not very experienced skipper. Also probably has a lower CG than most of your listed boats due to a lead bulb keel so weight is concentrated very low).

Good wiring and components, but like most boats fixes/upgrades will be necessary.

has 2 heads, with one commonly used for storage. I keep a dehumidifier and hangars in the small one for use as storage/drying room and showers.

110gal water, 40 fuel, so just enough fuel.

we've slept in in all 3 rooms under sail 24/7, easy to add a sea berth on stb settee.

nice aft cabin, queen size+ berth.

cutter rig was a factory option, easy to do. Also some ppl add an additional forestay for downwind sailing.

Sails easily to 8 knots with old sails on a reach, but the bottom is more flat than a full keel. Less so than a new beneteau. Will likely feel like a step up in spaciousness. not a good boat if you like to live in a cave however lots of natural light. Seems like many internet sailors are proud vampires 🤣

Anyways seems like 80% of the listed boats here are breaking your budget. How flexible is that? How much DIY work will you do? I probably do my own work for 20% of the yard, my time not included

[jalmberg]

Not to hijack this thread, but I’ve been looking for a Ferrari in good shape for under $10 k. If anyone has one, I’d love to hear from you!

[bcboomer]

I don't think the search is impossible. A Gulf Stream 44 just changed hands in Vancouver for $55,000 CAD. Pretty well equipped with solar and water maker.
Estate sales are your best bet.

[sv_isara]

also...be careful with a boat that's "ready to go". Could easily be the most expensive: you pay more because "it's ready to go". Then you replace all the broken systems. But you sound smarter than me...

Still, big difference (and big $ difference) between "ready" and ready.