Bluewater cruiser thoughts?

[Ledfoot2]

My wife are getting more serious about planning our escape! We have narrowed our choices down to a shorter list. Any thoughts on these boats?
1. Island Packet 45. Only concern is the chainplates and potential fuel tank issues.
2. Hylas 46. Only issue we have noticed is pricing.
3. Caliber 47 LRC. No real issues so far, maybe the pedestal is a little weird.

We would like to stay in the low 200's. We plan on doing some major blue water as we are on the west side of the states.

Our checklist is no teak decks, nav station, prefer island berth and Pullman berth in the front with forepeak head. Seperate shower is nice. Center Cockpit preferred.

Thanks folks, love the site!

[Don C L]

I haven't sailed any of them, but it looks to me the Hylas ticks off all the boxes for you. Plus it has a performance advantage. Really nice boats from all appearances, to my eye.

[Cloroxbottle]

My choice would be the IP or Caliber depending on if your design preference is full or fin keel with the Hylas being a distant third.

[Ledfoot2]

Why do you rate the IP and Caliber above the Hylas? Just curious.

[Bowdrie]

I would go thru each of the ones you've listed with the idea of "How can/will I get at this when needed".
Will you have to hang upside down in the bilge to get at the stuffing box?
Can you service the engine without needing 3 hands and a mirror?
Can you get at the tanks without using a chainsaw on the interior?
Can you work on the boom without a ladder?
How easy/hard will it be to secure a dingy?
Will toilet/holding tank plumbing become a nightmare?
I can't speak to the Caliber, except to say that it's quite a bit larger/heavier than the others.
The Hylas has an edge in performance, (I would expect that from a Frers design,) but what about a forestay for a staysail?
The IP has a better galley in that you're out of the traffic flow and you don't have to do a 180 to get stuff from the stove to the sink.
The IP will have an easier motion and be much less inclined to pick-up everything imaginable on its shaft/prop, it will also be an easier boat to haul-out and prop up on the hard.
Lots of things to consider.

[Cloroxbottle]

Originally Posted by Ledfoot2

Why do you rate the IP and Caliber above the Hylas? Just curious.

My personal choice would be the IP given your list. But different people have different priorities. My thought process places extreme emphasis on "what happens when weather in which you wouldn't leave the marina in catches up with you offshore" almost to the exclusion of everything else.

My perfect ocean cruiser would be a steel or aluminium Freya with a cutter rig with a windvane equipped as an expedition boat.

The Hylas, though well regarded, is just a different animal - a performance cruiser. Fin keel, skeg rudder, it's 27,000 pound displacement is abnormally light for a 46 foot sailboat. You'll sail faster in a Hylas than the IP, but it will be a rougher ride and if you get into a situation where you wish you could heave-to, you'll wish you were in the IP.

If you want something that delivers more performance than the IP, the Caliber 47 will get you that in a hull with a skeg protected rudder, and probably a better ride in a seaway than the Hylas.

It's all a matter of priorities. There's a couple with a racing background who publishes a vlog and they're rounding Cape Horn in a 40 something foot J-boat. I'd never consider doing such a thing. But they are out there, and they are doing it.

I don't like spade rudders.

https://krakenyachts.com/whats-wrong...spade-rudders/

[Don C L]

I crewed on a Frers 65 from Sri Lanka to Hong Kong... and the spade rudder fell off. (But apparently it had been damaged earlier in the trip and had not been replaced.) So I can understand the reluctance to endorsing spade rudders. I also had to sleep in the bow, going upwind, in the South China Sea for a week. There were many times I was lifted off the bunk as she slammed through the seas. I did not sleep well to say the least. (I was actually glad when the rudder fell off, the boat settled into a very nice motion... and kept sailing along! We all got a better night's sleep!) However the skipper in the aft slept well! I don't know what kind of record Hylas's have with their rudders, which are balanced on a short skeg, but I'd consider that as well. IN my own case I figured it is wise to have a spare rudder ready to go on a boat with a spade rudder... and always get a bunk aft. And actually my own preference now would be to avoid a spade rudder on a cruising boat.
You'd think I'd also put the Frers designed Hylas last too, but I don't. I'd be more interested in the quality of construction of each of the boats.

[Cloroxbottle]

Another correction: The Hylas has the spade rudder, the Caliber has the skeg hung. Just my brain getting ahead of the fingers.

Oh, and "Don Casey, a technical journalist with the leading US yachting magazine SAIL, says: ‘Before you shrug off rudder failure as a remote concern consider that the incidence of mid-ocean failures is close to one per cent.’"

That's far too high for my comfort level.

[JPA Cate]

Three thoughts to add for your consideration:

1) The forward head will be quite unpleasant to use while you are on the wind... If the boat is to have one head, I would prefer it to be near amidships, or, even better, close to the companionway.

2) The requirement for an island bed means that you are allowing a whole lot of the usable volume of the boat for open space in an area where you only spend about 8 hrs. per night. Your choice may still be best for you, but it was enough loss of space in the saloon area to make us not choose it, even though it had been my preference. I think Jim was right.

3) Lots of people like CC boats. We prefer aft, because you're farther away from the bow, and because they - to me - chop up the interior, and we like it to be more open. When you invite friends over for a cuppa or whatever, having that area feel spacious matters to us, ymmv.

Ann, somewhere over 175,000 sea miles

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Cloroxbottle

I don't like spade rudders.
https://krakenyachts.com/whats-wrong...spade-rudders/

And neither do I.
That link is a good read. IIRC, Nat Herreshoff designed a spade rudder boat about 100 years ago, it was, and they were, are, and always have been a feature for a racing boat.
They have no place on a cruising boat that's sticking its bow into all manner of out-of-the-way places that are replete with shallow water/reefs/rocks, let alone any problems at sea that "just happen".

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Three thoughts to add for your consideration:
1) If the boat is to have one head, I would prefer it to be near amidships, or, even better, close to the companionway.
2) The requirement for an island bed.
3) Lots of people like CC boats. We prefer aft, because you're farther away from the bow,
Ann, somewhere over 175,000 sea miles

1, Agree with head location.
2, Right, and how do you stay in an island bed when the boat is heeled/rolling?
I might add that a bunk that has you at much of an angle from the centerline will not be as comfortable as one that's aligned fore-an-aft.
3, CC boats also raise you up way above the roll center, perched up in the air doesn't give the "snug-and-secure" feeling that a sunken aft cockpit has, and sorting out issues with line handling and leads to/from things can get sticky.

[robert sailor]

I’m bias to the Hylas because their boats sail well, especially in light winds where something like an IP just isn’t up for the task. Freyas never designed a slow boat in his life, lol.Everyone concentrates on how a boat sails in heavy winds but in reality we get tons of light air and few encounters with really heavy air crossing oceans. Ok so what if you do get into storm force winds…I’ve owned and sailed boats with spade rudders and skeg hung rudders and I find the spade rudders do steer better than full rudders or skeg rudders but you need a properly built spade rudder to stand up to offshore conditions. Many of the spade rudders are not designed for heavy use so probably not a great choice for offshore unless it was reinforced or designed initially for heavy going offshore. My opinion is that a boat like the Hylas certainly is built to a very good standard and I would not be concerned with how they build their rudders. By the way the older Hylas type boats were built with skeg hung rudders. Not sure when they started using spade rudders. The IP type boats in my opinion are better in a place like the Caribbean where chances are you may go aground and they can certainly take it better than a fin keeled boat…that’s certainly where you see the bulk of them.
If your sold on any boat that you’ve listed, well they all will be just fine offshore, they are all decently built boats, all have a following and you shouldn’t find any of them to be a tough sale…Hylas and IP probably lead that charge. Good luck!

[Ledfoot2]

Thanks everyone. I am trying to have a better understanding of all the pros and cons of different boats. We are going to be living aboard and doing some serious traveling, so it narrows down the list significantly.

I cannot find a lot of folks with experience on the Caliber 47, but it seems to have a lot of neat features on it, kind of reminiscent of a Super Maramu, which I love, but the wife says are too constricted.

[S/V Illusion]

If you are going cruising, the vast majority of you time will be spent on anchor or in marinas, not sailing on the wind and hopefully not in nasty weather if you plan accordingly. Hence, many prioritize living space and comfort above “heavy” built wallowers like the IPs.

Each brand you mentioned is well-built. For pure sailing characteristics and livability, the Hylas wins my vote every time.

Parenthetically, rudders don’t just fall off; they are destroyed by the operator.

[MicHughV]

Really any of the three boats listed above can do the trick for you.
They all have their various advantages and disadvantages, so it is really up to you as to which one ticks all the boxes.

Some points to ponder though.
You don't say where you live, so keel draft and mast height may play into your decisions as will your cruising destinations.
Once you get that nailed down, you can move forward with other preferences.

Other odds and ends which have nothing to with anything, is your cockpit preference.
Again plusses and minuses on both sides of the fence here.
I don't believe the IP 45 is a center cockpit, so that could nix the boat right there.

Looking at photo's on a website is not the way to judge. Find these boats and spend a bit of time on each is my advice. Better yet, go for a sail on them

People have crossed oceans in all manner of craft. How well you will do will depend very much on your preparedness and not the boat.
I get the sense that you don't have much time nor experience on the ocean.
Your focus at this point seems to be directed at creature comfort, which will not help you much once offshore.

[JPA Cate]

"too constricted" is a response to a vision. Close construction can keep you safer in a seaway, so it is not all a downside. You do want finger rails or handholds for getting fore and aft when on the wind--or plan to heave to if someone wants to get fwd to the head. Open plan boats (with handholds of some kind) help a lot with the "constricted" feeling.

Ann