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Mr B · 17-11-2012, 17:11

It doesn't matter what you do or how you do it, It will always be the wrong way in some peoples eyes,

I bought my Gemini Catamaran for me, no one else, It did all the things I wanted it too, I watched a video of it crossing the north Atlantic, it got to England safely with no damage to the boat itself, The owner would not do it again, But thats him, Thats his preference, He does not like water sailing">Blue water sailing,

I live in an area that has bad oceans surrounding it at times, Its prudent to dont venture out when its bad, or going to be bad, But if your out there and it turns bad, you need to be on some thing that will give you at last a chance of survival, I believe my Cat will do just that, As long as it stays on the surface, I will be safe in it,

Yes, there is a ton of What ifs, Lightning, floating containers, whale attack, big ships running me down, Injuries, Heart attack, falling over board, 100 foot waves, Giant squid, pirates, No contact with any one,, but worst of all. no computer access, That would kill me quicker than any thing,

If I listened to all the what ifs, I would not get out of bed, But then I would probably get killed as an aircraft crashed through the roof and killed me in my bed,

This thread is like the Atgatt threads on motorcycling forums, All the gear all the Time, I ride a very fast, very large, motorcycle for fun, I dont ride to fall off it, so I dont wear leather from head to toe, I ride in boots, jeans and a T shirt, with the mandatory helmet, I wear a leather jacket purely for the cold weather, and I have fallen off it at high speed, Gravel rash takes 3 weeks to heal completely, Experience talking,

My snow skiing is the most dangerous activity I do, Its very easy to break bones, but I still do it, I smacked into a tree 30 years ago, and I have not forgotten the experience, It bloody hurt,

I was also an onsite Boilermaker, I was the idiot doing the repairs on Multistory buildings, when you see the sparks coming down from the top of tall new buildings, I was the idiot making the sparks,
I have been told, why dont you let other people do that dangerous sort of work, well I am the other people who do that sort of dangerous work,

I dont know about any other boats, Just my one, Its supposed to be a coastal cruiser, I have not felt unsafe in it at any time since I have owned it, and I crossed three Oceans in it getting it home, well almost, It got washed up on the rocks at anchor, But that had nothing to do with actually sailing it, Thats an anchor thread.

But thats another, what If, if my passenger had stayed awake another 10 minutes, it would not have happened either,

I learned to Rock and Roll dance in 1956 when Elvis had 2 records and was banned world wide, I get told I even do that wrong from people half my age and who learned to dance in classrooms,

People should not interfere with people who are out there doing it,

Turn off your computer and do it, your going to be dead a long time, so enjoy your life while you still have one,

Blue Crab · 17-11-2012, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

My heavy disp, full keel wood boat designed 75 years ago. Alot of full keel "ocean cruisers" can't get out of their own way in light air. Just because something is an old design/material doesn't mean it is inferior.
A friend of mine with a Catalina 30 (mast head jib, aluminum sick w/high tension rig) questioned my "obsolete" rig and hull design (high aspect, cambered/flexible wood mast, cutter rig, heavy disp, full keel)....then he conceded that it points very well, is quick in light air and when the wind pipes up I leave alot of plastic boats in my wake.

I hear you Wolf, and no offense intended. I've had a bunch of boats over a lifetime including one very heavy disp wooden vessel like yours. But all my others were light disp cruisers < 30 feet. I wasn't planning a RTW trip like 50% of CFers. I'm a coastal cruiser and when the wind gets beyond, say, F9 or so, (smiling) I put a couple of anchors down and sit tight.

But in light air like most of us have most of the time, I want to sail. Smartly. I had a couple of wakeup moments. I used to do a little sailing with some Olympic-level Optimist Pramsters, almost grown up with a J24. (I could buy beer.) Where most cruisers won't bother to trim sails til they flog, these guys and gals trimmed and breathed. On windless days, they sailed puffs. Puffs most can't see. A saying was they won by sailing through less water.

Then I got lucky and got a weekly ride on an Evelyn 32, a ULDB. When you experience what's possible in a little old sailboat on any given Sunday, I don't think it's likely you can ever go back to non performance or less than whatever optimal performance you can afford. Were I to take off to the real bluewater, I wouldn't be buying a slow heavy boat that needs 25kts to lift her skirts.

wolfenzee · 17-11-2012, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

I hear you Wolf, and no offense intended. I've had a bunch of boats over a lifetime including one very heavy disp wooden vessel like yours. But all my others were light disp cruisers < 30 feet. I wasn't planning a RTW trip like 50% of CFers. I'm a coastal cruiser and when the wind gets beyond, say, F9 or so, (smiling) I put a couple of anchors down and sit tight.

But in light air like most of us have most of the time, I want to sail. Smartly. I had a couple of wakeup moments. I used to do a little sailing with some Olympic-level Optimist Pramsters, almost grown up with a J24. (I could buy beer.) Where most cruisers won't bother to trim sails til they flog, these guys and gals trimmed and breathed. On windless days, they sailed puffs. Puffs most can't see. A saying was they won by sailing through less water.

Then I got lucky and got a weekly ride on an Evelyn 32, a ULDB. When you experience what's possible in a little old sailboat on any given Sunday, I don't think it's likely you can ever go back to non performance or less than whatever optimal performance you can afford. Were I to take off to the real bluewater, I wouldn't be buying a slow heavy boat that needs 25kts to lift her skirts.

I wouldn't by a slow heavy boat either, just because my boat is heavy doesn't mean it's slow. 10kts of wind I was doing 6.5kts (about hull speed) with main and working jib. I remember once with main and 180% genny up, water appeared "mill pond smooth" standing on the bow trying to figure out how I could have a bow wave (not much of one, but I was moving).

vtcapo · 18-11-2012, 06:55

Well, to those who think this thread has been a waste of time and you know who you are I say, you should have signed off a long time ago. But I notice you are still here, why? To those who have stuck with it you cannot deny the fact that a lot of useful information has come forward particularly for the novice.

One thing is certain there are boats that are not designed to go Blue Water making successful ocean passages repeatedly. However, the question is not whether this or that boat is Blue Water (best described by our Moderator) it is whether you would be willing to risk your life and those on board a boat of questionable integrity REGARDLESS of its design?

If I came across as someone who professed that only a heavy displacement full keel double ender is suited for Blue Water voyaging I apologize for not making myself clear. My apology however does not extend to those individuals who have displayed a cavalier attitude and consider that ANY stock boat is capable of the challenge or those spewing forth statistics as if those statistics make you immune from Murphy. Like I said before, that is wishful thinking at best.

What I have been trying to accomplish is to inform the Newbie that ocean voyaging is NOT for the faint of heart and ill prepared. It involves knowing the limitations of your boat as well as your own limitations. I for one know my limitations. I am 65 with a gimpy right arm (torn bicep tendon). My choice reflects both age and physical disability. Hence the choice of a traditional boat that is more forgiving and easier to sail. With the help of a modern rig, where every sail is roller furling including the main and all sheets and most of the halyards lead back to the cockpit, my 37 footer is manageable for ME. Knowing my limitations and having a mindset that only a left brainer would appreciate, I could not have it any other way.

So, if we can put aside our differences I think I have the solution to our dilemma. The OP basically asked if the Catalina 30 was Blue Water Capable? Instead of picking the boat apart with comparisons why not approach it from the standpoint that the prospective buyer is in LOVE with the 315 and has to have it. In other words, how would this knowledgeable forum address the question:

How can I make the Catalina 315 Blue Water ready?

I’ll start off by saying, carry that extra rudder and a six man life raft and let the rest of you chime in…

RT

**Ex-Calif** · 18-11-2012, 07:06

Bluewater boats are those boats that are out there in blue water.

Bluewater sailors or those sailors that sail across bluewater successfully.

A negative response to any theory, proposal or question is always the right answer. That's why progress is so hard.

Can I sail this boat across an ocean?

A1 - No it is totally unsuitable and you will die.
Result 1 - He makes it - It was a fluke. I am still right.
Result 2 - He dies. I was right.

A2 - Yes, sure go ahead.
R1 - He dies. I was wrong
R2 - He makes it. I was right

The negative response is always 100% correct. Apply this to politicians making decisions. You will see why most governments are stuck in the quicksand.

**carstenb** · 18-11-2012, 07:29

VT

I've followed this thread and have to say your comments are, actually, irrelevant.

vtcapo · 18-11-2012, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by carstenb

VT

I've followed this thread and have to say your comments are, actually, irrelevant.

YaaaaaaWnnnn......

sailorboy1 · 18-11-2012, 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtcapo

is whether you would be willing to risk your life and those on board a boat of questionable integrity REGARDLESS of its design? I don't recall reading on the thread anyone suggesting going out in a boat of "questionabe intergrity". But I believe you consider that all, or at least most, modern production boats are questinable intergrity from the start.

My apology however does not extend to those individuals who have displayed a cavalier attitude and consider that ANY stock boat is capable of the challenge I also don't recall anyone saying that "ANY" stock boat can do it. But that is a far ways from some of the comments to the point that a brand X could be be a bluewater boat just because it was brand X. brands mean nothing all that matters is a model.

How can I make the Catalina 315 Blue Water ready?

I’ll start off by saying, carry that extra rudder and a six man life raft and let the rest of you chime in… why do you think this is any more needed on a Catalina 315 than some other boat?

RT

Regardless I don't really believe you are ever going to be willing to agree that a mordern production boat can ever be considered a "bluewater" boat.

Bash · 18-11-2012, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtcapo

How can I make the Catalina 315 Blue Water ready?

I expect that most of the correspondents on this thread haven't bothered to research the Catalina 315 at all, and are basically just blowing smoke. Anyone who had bothered with a bit of research would probably want to start with the features of this boat that are already nice for bluewater cruising. For example, the boat has a foam-filled collision zone to help it survive collisions with shipping containers. I find it fascinating that, after 350 posts about whether this boat is bluewater capable, not one of our correspondents have mentioned this feature.

Let me say this a bit more strongly: most of the people replying to the OP's question haven't considered the actual boat at all. Instead, they've dealt with preconceptions about the boat's brand. Even there, we can presume that most people offering negative opinions about the brand have never actually sailed a Catalina. At the same time, some of the claims being made about alternative designs are complete ********, starting with the claim that one correspondent made about his boat being comfortable in a Force 9 storm. That's quite obviously a claim made by someone who's never been out in Force 9.

Here, fellows, do a bit of research before you respond to vtcopo's somewhat flippant question: http://sailmagazine.com/sailboat-reviews/catalina-315

sailorboy1 · 18-11-2012, 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBB3

It's a 2012 Catalina 315

You still with us on this thread?

I feel a 315 would be a nice comfortable little boat that could take you anywhere with the proper precautions and prep. My biggest issue is with the water storage capacity. The DLR looks pretty high for a modern design with lots of ballast suggesting it would be fairly comfortable for it's size.

vtcapo · 18-11-2012, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bash

I expect that most of the correspondents on this thread haven't bothered to research the Catalina 315 at all, and are basically just blowing smoke. Anyone who had bothered with a bit of research would probably want to start with the features of this boat that are already nice for bluewater cruising. For example, the boat has a foam-filled collision zone to help it survive collisions with shipping containers. I find it fascinating that, after 350 posts about whether this boat is bluewater capable, not one of our correspondents have mentioned this feature.

Let me say this a bit more strongly: most of the people replying to the OP's question haven't considered the actual boat at all. Instead, they've dealt with preconceptions about the boat's brand. Even there, we can presume that most people offering negative opinions about the brand have never actually sailed a Catalina. At the same time, some of the claims being made about alternative designs are complete ********, starting with the claim that one correspondent made about his boat being comfortable in a Force 9 storm. That's quite obviously a claim made by someone who's never been out in Force 9.

Here, fellows, do a bit of research before you respond to vtcopo's somewhat flippant question: Catalina 315 | Sail Magazine

Flippant? Both you and Don suffer from lapses of reading comprehension.
If you look through the threads I did mention the foam filled collision zone in Post #103.

But that is neither here nor there. In in other words... irrelevant. Just answer the question boys or are you both ready to take this boat anywhere AS IS?

RT

vtcapo · 18-11-2012, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

You still with us on this thread?

I feel a 315 would be a nice comfortable little boat that could take you anywhere with the proper precautions and prep. My biggest issue is with the water storage capacity. The DLR looks pretty high for a modern design with lots of ballast suggesting it would be fairly comfortable for it's size.

Gee Don some constructive criticism for a change. That must have hurt...

RT
PS Please explain proper precautions and prep? That's rather vague don't you think?

sailorboy1 · 18-11-2012, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtcapo

Gee Don some constructive criticism for a change. That must have hurt...

RT
PS Please explain proper precautions and prep? That's rather vague don't you think?

Oh give it a friggin rest!!! Not a boat in the world ready to go out cruising right off the production line including that outdated lump of one that you have so much belief in!

We have lots of threads here about preparing your boat etc. and I see no reason to insert a new one here.