Boat buying etiquette

[S/V Illusion]

There are no certainties here except for one -there are more boats for sale than there are buyers.

Everyone has an opinion which means little. Some less so. If you and the seller come to an agreement which results in a sales contract, the method by which you arrive there is irrelevant.

[Checkswrecks]

The best advise above is to never fall in love with a boat or anything else till you own it.

Interesting thread and the answer to the OP is clear as mud, but boats are like airplanes in generally taking one of two tracks. One on one with the seller versus working through brokers, which I generally avoid because I've flipped a lot of stuff, do my research FIRST, and have a good idea technically of what to look for/at. (Note my avatar name)

So here goes with an uncommon person to person story IF you know what to look for/at and have a backup plan.

A local person really HAD to get out of ownership fast and I happened to see her CL ad 20 minutes after she posted at a salvage price. On the phone she said that the 1985 Ericson 323 needed the rub rails repaired and after 4 months of ownership, she'd gotten in for more than she wanted, upkeep cost more than she thought, and she couldn't afford the repair. She sent me a survey from several years ago and I already knew a little about Ericsons so spent the evening learning as much as possible about that one model. Unfortunately, a woman saw the ad too and the seller had us show the next morning at the same time. I HATE that but it happened.

While I have no problem doing the glass repairs I expected to see another junker. But it didn't take long to realize that this had been a well-kept boat till the last couple of years and was the cleaner-upper I had been looking for. The price was small enough to write the boat off and I'd have no problem chopping up the rest for salvage if need be. But - This boat had a 3 inch technical log detailing it's history to show the previous owner had been a local doctor (2 minutes Google stalking on the phone) who had a high end local yard do maintenance till after nearly 30 years he donated to the non-profit that the seller got it from. PLUS I could sell the new-ish set of sails or motor and make back much more than the purchase price if I found a bad surprise and still have the rest to profit from. It'd taken me months of looking at trash boats to find this dirt-encrusted jewel.

So after looking it over close enough to have a good idea about condition AND a backup plan AND be willing to write off my money, I came up on deck where the seller and woman were. The seller looked at me, like "what do you think?" I told her flat out to consider it sold and that I'd buy it at her price. Her face went blank and after a second, she said the other person just said she was interested in buying the boat. Pissed me off to miss by two minutes but I kept my smile.

Unlike the woman who wanted contingencies (husband, survey, possible loan) I offered immediate cash and then offered the other woman $500 cash on the spot to back out and use toward another boat. Cash talks, the other woman walked, and I still got the boat I wanted for a lot less than I was willing to pay.

A week after buying the boat, a local boat repair/flipper guy came by while I was working on the boat and I learned the seller had asked him to look it over while giving her the repair estimate. He agreed that it was a great boat to either keep or flip for a profit and said he was kicking himself because he'd liked to have bought it.

Think of me as crazy but I now own a model of boat that is solid with a great reputation that I've never sailed and I'm a happy camper.

[nimbex1970]

We have only purchased one boat, just this week. From MY experience, I had to keep on top of the broker. Nothing wrong with a follow up email, asking for a purchase contract and placing down a deposit. That shows more intent to me.

We signed a purchase contract, did the survey, then of course found many things, but we expected them. I would have been pleased paying the full asking price. We asked the broker to query the seller how much he was willing to price adjust based on survey results. The seller dropped the price from 20k to $17,500. Everyone was happy.

Good luck, it takes time and patience.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by nimbex1970

We have only purchased one boat, just this week. From MY experience, I had to keep on top of the broker. Nothing wrong with a follow up email, asking for a purchase contract and placing down a deposit. That shows more intent to me.

We signed a purchase contract, did the survey, then of course found many things, but we expected them. I would have been pleased paying the full asking price. We asked the broker to query the seller how much he was willing to price adjust based on survey results. The seller dropped the price from 20k to $17,500. Everyone was happy.

Good luck, it takes time and patience.

Yes, but how do you think things would have worked out if you first insulted the seller with a low ball $14,000 email offer on whatever the asking price was? This is what the OP has done by offering 30% less than the asking price.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Yes, but how do you think things would have worked out if you first insulted the seller with a low ball $14,000 email offer on whatever the asking price was? This is what the OP has done by offering 30% less than the asking price.

I’m unfamiliar with the concept that someone who doesn’t know the seller can devine with certainty that he was insulted.

[Jammer]

I don't think this thread makes much sense without some information about the condition, approximate value, and time on the market of the boat being sold.


I can't recall the exact figures but I believe the initial offer I made on the boat I have now was about 30% below the asking price. After some negotiation I think we ended up agreeing on around 20% below asking price. There was a broker involved. The boat had been sitting for over a year, and there were several others like it that were similarly priced. It is a modest vessel -- I paid under $10,000.


Fair prices on boats in that price range are hard to gauge because the circumstances of any particular sale matter have an outsize effect on the price.


In contrast, most boats selling for $200,000 can be compared to prior sales and listings of boats of the same make and model. It is unlikely that someone selling such a boat would take an offer for $140,000 seriously. I would not look at a boat so badly mispriced that I anticipated doing that without first confirming that the seller is willing to consider all offers.


In a similar light, "project boats" that need substantial refitting to be seaworthy are difficult to price, and the asking price can be seen as aspirational.

[Checkswrecks]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Yes, but how do you think things would have worked out if you first insulted the seller with a low ball $14,000 email offer on whatever the asking price was? This is what the OP has done by offering 30% less than the asking price.

Don't care a bit. You're not negotiating to be best friends.

I'm fine with fishing to see what the seller will respond to, as it's just a place to start talking. If he asks 20, you offer 17, and they would've taken 16, then that's money you gave away. I'm not saying to be stupid or unrealistic and I always have a reason for my offer numbers. If the thing is underpriced already, somebody else will snatch it like in my purchase above. That's a reason to not fall in love with anything you don't own.

I am always friendly and respectful to everybody including brokers who said that buyers were not making a good enough offer. It's your money and their commission increases as the numbers get higher. If YOU think your offer is reasonable, their job is to present it. Again, not to be your best new friend.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

I’m unfamiliar with the concept that someone who doesn’t know the seller can devine with certainty that he was insulted.

The OP is trying to figure out how to buy a boat, so I’ve offered up some constructive advice having personally purchased and/or sold five boats varying in size from 11ft up to 62 over the past 40 years.

You should try doing the same, now how about something constructive.

[Shrew]

You're entitled to offer whatever you want. You're entitled to submit the offer any way you want. Unfortunately, the broker and the seller are also entitled to ignore you.

An E-mail can be construed as an offer, however I wouldn't consider an 'earnest' offer, which would include a signed P&S (with terms protecting the buyer) along with a deposit.

An offer with Earnest Money is what I would consider an 'offer'. Everything else is just talking and asking questions. For example, I would not really consider "Will the seller take 'x'?" as serious offer.

To the question of how long to wait. Someone might be waiting to see what other offers are coming in. There are only three responses: Yes, No, or Counter Offer. There is no "Maybe, let's see" response to an offer.

[Shrew]

I'd contact the broker and make sure that you and he are on the same page regarding your offer. Make sure he doesn't think you're just asking questions or kicking tires.

[Stu Jackson]

We spent a whole year looking at nothing else but the model of boat we bought. Went thru survey on one, didn't pass. Found this one. Went to meet the owner. Crawled all over the boat, pristine condition. Owner said, "You sure you aren't a dealer, you seem to know a lot."


He advertised for 58, I offered 52, we settled on 54. Boat inspection 2 hours. Deal, 5 minutes.


I've done that with two earlier boats.


IMHO, offers made by mail or email or thru a third party are a waste of everybody's time.


Unless you're tied to a broker.


None of us was born a boater, we learned. And there's no reason you can't learn even during your first boat buy.


Look at it this way: Why is a boat any different than a car or a house. Would you ask the same ?s on a forum about those things? I doubt it.


The time you spend trying to figure the answers out could better be spent on learning about boats and specifically the ones you have in mind. Sure, it's easier if there's only one, but there is not that much difference between 25 footers. Or 30 footers. When you get above that, there are, but then budget applies, as always. Of course, there are exceptions: Flicka is more expensive and way different than a Catalina 22. But if you don't know that, you haven't done your homework.


Good luck.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The OP is trying to figure out how to buy a boat, so I’ve offered up some constructive advice having personally purchased and/or sold five boats varying in size from 11ft up to 62 over the past 40 years.

You should try doing the same, now how about something constructive.

So, Ken, if someone made a minus 30% offer on your Oyster, you'd be insulted personally and not respond, hoping to negotiate a deal?

Seems like you've had her on the market for quite a long time now... perhaps there is a correlation between attitude and success in selling.

For the OP... you should never offer more than you think the boat is worth to YOU. That would be silly! If the seller is insulted, too bad. Maybe he will find someone who is willing to buy on his terms, maybe he will still own the boat two years from now. You, meanwhile, will have gone on to buy a boat at a price you find acceptable. Or maybe you will have readjusted your expectations to a more realistic level... who knows?

Who's the winner there?

Jim

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

So, Ken, if someone made a minus 30% offer on your Oyster, you'd be insulted personally and not respond, hoping to negotiate a deal?

Seems like you've had her on the market for quite a long time now... perhaps there is a correlation between attitude and success in selling.

For the OP... you should never offer more than you think the boat is worth to YOU. That would be silly! If the seller is insulted, too bad. Maybe he will find someone who is willing to buy on his terms, maybe he will still own the boat two years from now. You, meanwhile, will have gone on to buy a boat at a price you find acceptable. Or maybe you will have readjusted your expectations to a more realistic level... who knows?

Who's the winner there?

Jim

In Keno's case I dont think he cares..
Summers in the Med, Winters in the Caribe.. and he's into the hospitality game..
Eastern Greece and Turkey charters summers, Caribe in winters and no having to sail another Transat..
Sounds okay to me..

[Fore and Aft]

Boatman61, I occasionally survey over priced boats where the owner has had the boat on the market for years and finally they find that schmuck who wants to pay the full asking price. Often they do not care about actually selling the boat at all but the “Mrs” has said it has to go.
Cheers

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Boatman61, I occasionally survey over priced boats where the owner has had the boat on the market for years and finally they find that schmuck who wants to pay the full asking price. Often they do not care about actually selling the boat at all but the “Mrs” has said it has to go.
Cheers

Yeah I know a coupla guys playing that game..
" Look hun.. were paying for it so may as well use it till we sell it.. else it rots and we lose money all round"