Boat prices / bang for the buck

[Alex_V]

My 88 Catalina 27' is docked on Lake Lanier, GA. She is in great shape, sails and shows well. I do enjoy it greatly, but with having a few friends over she feels a little crammed, or so it seems. Cockpit is a little small even with a tiller folded up.

So, I started to look for something a little larger to get into. Something that I can stay aboard for longer lengths of time.

That's when the cost of things started to get confusing. I can see me getting $7K for my Catalina on a good day. But anything larger lets say 30' and up are in the $20's - 30's. I can see me spending up to $35-40K on the next boat, but those extra few feet just don't seem to be worth it.

So it occurred to me, my $7K Catalina will do for now, and the next boat will have to be in a $100K range to make sense upgrading once I am ready to switch lifestyles.

Or am I missing something? Is there anything of good value between $20 - $30K

[hobopacket]

Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=147098

Lots of great bigger boats in that price range of $20-30k check out the thread above.

Problem is getting them to your lake. I would think 2000-3000 k for shipping.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Looking for a Low Priced Cruising Boat? Start Here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ds-147098.html

I suggest starting at the beginning of that thread, as it was started to illustrate different types of boats that are on the market at a relatively low asking price (< $30K). You will see some posts are of boats currently for sale, some were listed two years ago and may be sold now, but the main point is to look at the different types and models and the condition of those shown.

That should give you a good start to get an idea of what is available, or often available. BUT, those are all cruising boats, and not necessarily what I would choose if I were in your boat shoes on Lake Lanier.

As for the size difference between a 27 foot Catalina and a 30 foot boat?
It depends on the boat.

My view?
I would NOT get a large, heavy, slow, typical cruising boat for a typical light winds southern lake. I have sailed on boats on southern lakes and the typical weekend light winds (10-15 knots, or less) can be frustrating and...boring.

For Lake Lanier sailing, which is not the same as open ocean sailing, I would suggest you look at a boat like the Hobie 33, (an older boat design which is now low priced) which is a relatively fast boat (meaning it will move on lakes, in relatively light winds, if you have good sails, etc.). It is longer, at 33 feet, has a bigger cockpit, (small, low cabin), is fun for typical "day sailing" or "weekenders" and most have a lifting keel that allows them to be trailered to other locations (think of taking it to the Gulf of Mexico). You can find them for about $10K in some cases, with some or most a bit more (10 - 20K).

IF you bought a lower priced one, I would allocate some money for NEW sails to get the most fun from it. New, or very good condition used sails can make a huge difference in a boat like this, and how much fun you will have.

Here is a good review that lists some of its characteristics:
Used Boat Review: Hobie 33 - boats.com

IF you have $20K or more, I think a J-80 would be fun on the lake. They are a small boat (as I recall 26 feet) but built for fun and speed. They are fast (designed for racing) and "sporty" with a retractable bowsprit, so you could put up an asymmetrical spinnaker on those light winds days on the lake.

Here is more info on the J-80
J/80

In my view, the "bang for the buck" comes with the enjoyment of sailing the boat.

With a boat like that, you could blast past the rest of the boats on the lake that are much slower. Everyone will watch you fly by and think: I wish I was on THAT boat instead of this slug." How do I know? I have been on both and the faster boat was much more fun.

They may not have a big galley (the Hobie 33 may have a rudimentary one), but take some sandwiches or eat at a marina restaurant after having fun on the water. That is what I would do.

Put another way, IF I were stuck living near Lake Lanier and using it for my primary sailing location, I would buy a boat optimized for either sailing fast, or sailing in light winds (with good sail area and light displacement). Sailing fast in protected waters is much more fun, if you have the right boat.

Fast is fun.

Cruising on the ocean is different, and living aboard is different. For those purposes I would choose very different boats.

Hope that helps you and others.

[Alex_V]

Great points that you brought up. I totally see a point about a fast boat on a lake. But I was starting to look for something larger to test the waters about living onboard, before taking a full plunge. Maybe get something large enough that can be moved to the coast in a year or two.

I did read many pages on the boats under <30K thread, but nothing stood out as -> thats the one I want.

My taste seems to appreciate my $7K Catalina even more, or go out and spend $100K+. I guess thats what I was trying to say, didn't feel like there is alot of value between those extremes. Well, 100K+ boat is not an extreme, more of my monetary limit.

[Kenomac]

How much is a mid to late 1980's Catalina 36? If I was looking for a second boat to place in the Caribbean for the winter, that's what I'd be looking at. Lot's a boat for the money at $30-45k

[Alex_V]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

How much is a mid to late 1980's Catalina 36? If I was looking for a second boat to place in the Caribbean for the winter, that's what I'd be looking at. Lot's a boat for the money.

Don't see many Catalina 38's around here. On Yachtworld they seem to be listed around 30-40K. Only big Catalina on Lanier is a 80 Catalina 30' and is listed for 17K. Which is more then twice the cost of my 88 C27'.

[Rough Magic]

It's not about the linear three feet, but about the increase in volume. The factor is cubed, that is, to the power of 3. The amount of materials it takes to build a 'sphere' (the hull, deck, sails, etc) is where the cost and weight comes from. So, as the sphere grows, it grows exponentially. Consider the increase in weight between the two boats, the Catalina 27 is about 6800 pounds, the 30 about 10,200. That's 50% more materials, etc., just in those 3 feet.

David

[Covey]

Originally Posted by Alex_V

Don't see many Catalina 38's around here. On Yachtworld they seem to be listed around 30-40K. Only big Catalina on Lanier is a 80 Catalina 30' and is listed for 17K. Which is more then twice the cost of my 88 C27'.

There is a 1977 Pearson 365 listed in Beaufort, S.C. for 28.5K great deal of info regarding condition of the vessel in the description. This boat seems like it would fill your needs until you make the jump to 100K plus.
Captain Mark

[Suijin]

First of all, a Catalina 30 is significantly larger than a Catalina 27...it's all about volume, which is largely about beam, and the 30 is a full 2' wider. That's huge when you're talking cabin and cockpit room.

As for good value, it depends on how you measure value. For some it's room and comfort, for others it's seaworthiness, and for others it's lines and design and workmanship. There are some who consider a Bristol Channel Cutter to be a good value. It's essentially the same "size" as your Catalina but 15x more expensive.

So tell us what you want for your $20-30k and you'll get some more fine-tuned recommendations I bet.

[Dave22q]

You really need to clarify your intended use. I totally agree that a light fast boat might be great on the lake but not so much in coastal water with chop and stiffer winds. As for size, comparing a live aboard 27 to a 30 is sort of like comparing a tent to a camper. You could live in either one but the differences are major. It's not just space, storage and headroom. Remember for live aboard use you need a full galley, water supply, head and both battery power and a source for recharging. Some 27's and many 25's get by with outboards but seldom a 30. These are some of the reasons why 11% more length can result is tripling the cost. It is comparing apples and oranges.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

Looking for a Low Priced Cruising Boat? Start Here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ds-147098.html

That's a great thread, Steady.

[Stu Jackson]

There is a Catalina 34 Fleet on Lake Lanier and they accept all sizes and makes of boats. A former C34 commodore had his C34 on your lake until he moved to FL. You really need to look around (you) some more!

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Alex V,

You'll need to get clear on what you prefer to have at this point. I can see feeling cramped in any 27 footer. But, you're not ready yet to leave the lake. Can't blame you at all for balking at spending a lot more money to get only a small bit more space, but have you sailed on any of the 30 footers you're thinking about? Jim and I sailed on his Yankee 30 (an S&S design) and could take two other couples out with us for the day. It was crowded, though, and one of our women friends who is a large woman felt claustrophobic on it, and also on the 36' we had later.

Imho, stay well inside your price range, and if you're really feeling ready to move up, move up more than 3 feet, maybe as much as 6. Move up to something you could at least sail to the Bahamas in, and find out if you even like being at sea (it's not really for everybody). And, the new boat should make your heart go pitty-pat. [It needs to feel like it is pretty, a great sailer, whatever you personally value most in a boat, whether it's speed, entertainment room, or something else.]

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents worth.

Ann

[medevicerep]

I think you should not base your decision on one outing where you felt a bit cramped. Are you usually out with just yourself and one other person? A 27 footer sounds right for Lake Lanier.

[Moxie 38]

So it occurred to me, my $7K Catalina will do for now, and the next boat will have to be in a $100K range to make sense upgrading once I am ready to switch lifestyles.

Or am I missing something? Is there anything of good value between $20 - $30K __________________

If you would be interested in total bang for the buck - my thoughts would be to trade her in for a Catalina 38 if you have the draught requirements needed in your area (6'10"!). She is appointed well inside , will sleep 6 comfortably and she sails on rails to windward - points high into the wind and steers with minimal weather helm - if any, when trimmed well.

Built from 1979 to about 1994, over 300 were produced and the well maintained ones are in serious demand. For $35K you could get a decent boat with defintely some TLC needs but be careful. At 6'10" draught, it is likely that after 30 years there may have been a serious keel strike or two. In your survey, make certain that fore and aft of the keel on the hull are well sounded and that the stringers / keel bolts have been carefully surveyed. You and your shipmates will assuredly have the biggest bang for your buck! I have a 1984 C38 - hull number 274. I would not look for anything older than this.