Boat Size !

[TrentePieds]

Lady Captin:

I just saw Joh.Ghurt's post (#15). I concur 100% and then some :-)!

Do NOT look at purchasing price when determining affordability. Look instead to Ownership and Maintenance Costs! If your circumstances enable you to afford the O&ME, you can find the bux for the purchase.

As a rough rule of thumb - from which there are many, many deviations - do this if you want to compare O&ME between various boats:

Determine the quotient of dividing the big boat's LWL by the little boat's LWL:

36/25 = 1.44

Raise the quotient to the third power:

1.44^3 = 2.99

The cost of owning and maintaining the bigger boat the long term, say a 10 year period of ownership, will be 2.99 times, call it three times, the cost of owning and maintaining the smaller boat!

This is OBVIOUSLY a very rough estimate, but you shouldn't be even trying for an accurate estimate. Spurious accuracy is NOT your friend! And seeking accuracy in this context is a waste of time and emotion.

When you buy a boat, set up a separate bank account from which to pay all Boat O&ME. They are entirely separate from the boat's Acquisition Costs. In my case, I have my Credit Union (beating a drum here: CREDIT UNION! NOT a bank) make an automatic transfer of Can$1,000 every month from my personal account into the TrentePieds Account in order to support my "30 foot habit". TP is 30' LOA, 25' LWL.

Were I to buy the only other vessel that would interest me in any significant way, a Fast Passage 39 (39'6" LOA, 33'6" LWL), I would jack up my "Contribution to the Sinking Fund" to Can$[1,000 x(33.5/25)^3]=~ Can$2,400/month.

Remember that that money sits in a "sinking fund" until needed. It needn't be spent unless spending it is imperative as when, e.g., a new suit of canvas is urgently required. Or re-engining. If there is a balance in the sinking fund after your period of ownership, just stick it back in your personal account.

So there you have it! It is obviously the O&ME as a slice out of your income you need to look at. And if you do it as I've suggest above you'll never find, to use MySaintedFather's phrase, that you have "shat in the nettles" :-)

All the best!

TrentePieds

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Lady Captin

However we are wondering just how much the cost Is affected between say a 30 foot boat and a 36 foot boat , regarding maintenance and running cost .

People like to toss out weird estimates of how much more larger boats coast to operate and use. I have posted 5 years of full time cruising costs and a year ago I did a thread where I went through 4 years of data and estimate that a 30' boat instead of my 41' would have saved maybe 3% of total cruising costs. And in that time I have hauled out and painted and gotten a new sail.

Last I a 30' boat instead of my 41 would have saved $528.

On the other hand the extra room and comfort of the 41' boat have been priceless.

[Lady Captin]

We have been researching our potential boat for over three years now. We have purchased a Tanzer 22 to learn to sail .

we all have our own comfort zones , for us for example , no bolt on keel . Preferably a full
Keel heavier boat of smaller size ., like a cape
dory / west sail / contessa / and a few others I will not list here .

Can’t agree with crossing oceans in a bolt on keel , fin keel no skeg etc . That is not a knock I , but just something we need to feel comfortable in our minds at this point .

We are new here , so don’t understand the correct way to post and reply . This reply was intended to the post about our BLUEWATER . Reference.

Thank you for your insights !

[Don C L]

Yeah I love my little, old boat for what we are doing and its low costs, but I'd echo the 36' as the preferred choice. The cost difference in maintenance would not be huge and once you get more sailing experience I think you'll see you can handle the cost and the boat. As you are learning, see if you can charter a larger boat if you can to get some practice in one to help inform your decisions.

[Lady Captin]

Wow , great insight and exactly what we where looking for ! You made is pretty clear and easy to grasp ! Guess when it comes to boats we all need a little more reminder to use our brains more than our hearts .

You have helped put us on corse once again for the smaller boat . Thank you for taking the time to give such a thoughtful response. ,

Paul

[Lady Captin]

Hi , as we would only afford a boat needing some work , I can’t help but feel , that as pointed out , we
Could find the long term cost a Concern . More money for new sails , engine refit at some point perhaps , rigging etc . We Do feel often the boat picks you ! So we
Have not ruled out the larger boat completely as of yet , thank you .

[boatman61]

Being a small boat man personally I would say 27 to 31ft for a solo and 31 to 36 for a couple..
You need more storage space for the +1..
What some call basic is perfectly comfortable for others..

[GRIT]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

People like to toss out weird estimates of how much more larger boats coast to operate and use. I have posted 5 years of full time cruising costs and a year ago I did a thread where I went through 4 years of data and estimate that a 30' boat instead of my 41' would have saved maybe 3% of total cruising costs. And in that time I have hauled out and painted and gotten a new sail.

Last I a 30' boat instead of my 41 would have saved $528.

On the other hand the extra room and comfort of the 41' boat have been priceless.

I concur.

We cruised 6 years in a 35 footer (Canada to Trinidad, full time) and 6 years in a 39 footer (Canada, E-Carib, Atlantic coast of Europe, also full time) and the difference in cost was much smaller than what all those theorists say.

Get the largest you can afford if you plan on cruising fulltime, and for a long time. If you're just out for a year or two, a smaller boat will probably get the job done.

You'll simply be more comfortable in the larger boat. But get what you can afford. If you're broke, you won't enjoy cruising much, no matter the size of boat.

Cheers, and good luck.
Paul.

[MicHughV]

Comparing a 30 footer to a 36 footer....one should really compare "displacement" as mentioned above.
While a 36 footer might only by 6' longer than the 30 footer, it is likely wider, heavier, etc.

In short, a 36 footer could easily be "twice the size" of a 30 footer..and also twice the cost...engines will be appropriately larger, mast, sails and rigging way more substantial.
onboard equipment, generators, electronics, water and fuel tankage, etc...

you can't really just use LOA to compare boats.

[JPA Cate]

Lady Captain's First Mate,

How about a name to go with your crew position?

My Jim had a 30 foot S&S Yankee 30 when we met. He had owned boats previously, as well. We sailed the Y 30 to HI and back to SF. And, after that, decided that we needed more storage space, and we bought a 3rd hand 36 footer. We lived aboard and cruised it frugally for 18 yrs. If you have retired, and teach yourself the skills, you will find 36 will be completely adequate. You might do a search on the Rafiki 37, Mike OReilly has one, and is a frugal cruiser. Any boat 32 and up should do you, some are more stowage oriented than others. For offshore cruising, you need usable hand holds, a secure galley, and good seaberths, wide side decks, and preferably, a good sailing boat for its size. Having a cutaway forefoot on the full keel will improve performance. Also, what dradcliffe wrote is really true. It is the displacement that determines the effort involved in doing things, and that is why our 46 footer only takes as much effort as our 36 footer, she is that much lighter. And yes, she is a fin keel, skeg hung rudder type of boat with about 30,000 offshore sea miles under our stewardship, and more coastal.

Ann

Ann

[Na Mara]

On the subject of what you should budget for refitting a used boat, it very much depends on the age and condition of said boat but my experience is about 10 plus the number of years since the last major refit% So a 25 year old boat that has never had a major refit will be about 35% of purchase to get its systems up to modern standards. If you want to get it up to ocean cruising standards count on about 50% of the purchase price. However if a boat has been continually upgraded and kept Bristol fashion you might get away with 10%.

[Lady Captin]

Thank you sooooo much to all who have take the time to respond ! All of your thoughts and ideas had value for us 😁😁😁. It is a constant evaluation for us and in truth we sway often . However as we have not begun to look at boats yet , we realize so much more will become clear once we do. Like most who dream of boat ownership , we cruse the forsale adds, and try to learn more about the boats that appeal to us !

In truth , our future boats has changed in some ways , even before we are ready to set off on our future sailboat. All a result of good books , good videos and good helpful advice from people like yourselves!

For now , we choose to be human sponges, and learn as much as possible from others ! We are full time RV’s , so in many ways we are living a boat life on land , lol ? We know when the time is right , we will find the boat that is right for us , in the mean time the more we can learn , and come to understand what might be best for us, the less chance we may regret our choice in the end !

This approach worked wonderful for us in choosing our Rv , and never once regretting our choice ! We did the same , we researched for years and looked at a tons of used RV’s even before we where ready . In the end , I feel our work payed off amazingly. We love our older Rv and have never wished for a newer one !

It’s not impressive, or really big , however it’s the perfect Rv for us . We hope that things will work out as well for our future boat , and once again I genuinely thank all that give their advice , input and insight .

Paul&Simone

[Mike OReilly]

Hi P&S, I just noticed your thread. I'm (we're) going the opposite direction right now; trying to understand RV sizes, and figure out what might work for our life. So I think I can appreciate your process.

As you can gather, it's hard to answer your question in any certain way. So much depends on the crew, their cruising style, their location, and probably a bunch of other factors. I suspect (but don't know... yet ), that it's the same with RV questions. What does it cost to operate and live in a small camper van vs a small Class C? How does one choose?

My unhelpful answer for boats is to figure out what you need. Costs definitely go up as LOA goes up. It's impossible to generalize as to how much, but as a principle, costs will go up. So keeping the boat small helps with cost control.

BUT, going too small can also add to cruising costs. A small boat might cost little up front, but is more likely to have inadequate storage and tankage. If you are looking to live frugally (as we do), then finding a boat that can operate independently for long periods is the best way to keep costs down.

So my view is to go with the SMALLEST boat that will fit your needs. Of course, it is hard know what that is. The only way I figured it out was to live with a few boats.

[Lady Captin]

Mike OReilly - geez I tried sending a message and it just disappeared into the ether! Here I go again. Thank you for your reply. My advice to you regarding RVs is to buy used. We live very frugally full-time in our RV. Everyone’s style and needs are different. I could live in a van where is Paul wouldn’t be able to tolerate such a small space. Our fifth wheel is 28 feet, just perfect for the two of us and our two big dogs. We spent $12,000 on our rig, and close to 40,000 for our diesel truck. I think if we had to do it over again we would’ve just bought a gas truck and a bumper pull trailer. We have solar and a composting toilet, we stay on public land six months of the year in Arizona for free, then back to Canada at a campground for the other six months. If you’re American you will have so many more options! Keep it simple and don’t spend a lot of money. Enjoy!

[Tetepare]

I had a Catalina 30 for 26 years and it was plenty big for weeks of cruising. It’s not blue water.


So skip all the discussion and riffraff, and go get a Pacific Seacraft 34 or Cape Dory 36. There. Done. No regrets.