Boat Size !

[Mara Mae]

Originally Posted by Lady Captin

Hi , this is Lady Captains first mate , lol .

I have a question, and I realize that it is not an easy answer! I know there are a tons of variables in the question! I am not looking for a definitive answer per say!
More just some positive feedback, to think about !

We are looking to purchase our first blue water sail boat in the next couple of years and we are really torn between the size of boat ! We have done a good deal of research and know bigger boats means greater cost !

However we are wondering just how much the cost Is affected between say a 30 foot boat and a 36 foot boat , regarding maintenance and running cost . As we all know Lin and Larry Pardy , did the world on a very small boat , so it’s do able ! However for those that have upsized maybe 5-6 feet how have you found it cost wise .

Given a greater purchase price as a given , looking for some positive, dare I say kind thoughtful insight from those who have tackled the same issue in their own minds !

I am not looking to compare specific boats ,as that is can of worms , lol . More just some experience with going bigger , or perhaps even smaller and lessons learned.


Ps , just to be clear 36 foot would be at the top of our budget and consideration, this is a personal decision, based on personal financial and research considerations, thank you !
Thank you Paul

Three things.

1. Is it your first BW boat or first boat?

2. BASAP = Buy As Small As Possible

3. If 36 is at the top of your budget, try 30. If you buy a 30 that is in pretty good shape without too much to do, refit maintain her well, and you stick with bw sailing you will always able to sell it for close to what you paid and upgrade.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lady Captin

Mike OReilly - geez I tried sending a message and it just disappeared into the ether! Here I go again. Thank you for your reply. My advice to you regarding RVs is to buy used. We live very frugally full-time in our RV. Everyone’s style and needs are different. I could live in a van where is Paul wouldn’t be able to tolerate such a small space. Our fifth wheel is 28 feet, just perfect for the two of us and our two big dogs. We spent $12,000 on our rig, and close to 40,000 for our diesel truck. I think if we had to do it over again we would’ve just bought a gas truck and a bumper pull trailer. We have solar and a composting toilet, we stay on public land six months of the year in Arizona for free, then back to Canada at a campground for the other six months. If you’re American you will have so many more options! Keep it simple and don’t spend a lot of money. Enjoy!

Yeah, the forum software can be finicky sometimes.

Thanks for the tip. Like you and your boat search, we're contemplating an RV to compliment (not replace) our boat life. We spend 1/2 the year on board (in Newfoundland these days) and the other 1/2 on land in Canada (mostly). So a small RV might make sense for us. But it's hard to know without some experience.

One comment; a 28' 5th-wheel is probably going to have more living space than most 36' sailboats (maybe all). Our boat is 37 feet (actually 36' 9"). I've never actually got out a measuring tape, but I bet we have about 120 sq. ft of living space. Of course this doesn't include the large tankage and storage spaces on our boat. But it's definitely small by most standards.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by Mara Mae

2. BASAP = Buy As Small As Possible

But not smaller.

[Na Mara]

"Buy as small as possible but not smaller"

If only more sailors lived by these words a lot boat-induced poverty could be avoided, as well as a good few divorces.

I absolutely concur that you should buy the smallest boat that meets the requirements of your sailing program. Before buying that first boat your priority should be gaining as much experience as possible so that you are better able to identify what your program requirements are.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

People like to toss out weird estimates of how much more larger boats coast to operate and use. I have posted 5 years of full time cruising costs and a year ago I did a thread where I went through 4 years of data and estimate that a 30' boat instead of my 41' would have saved maybe 3% of total cruising costs. And in that time I have hauled out and painted and gotten a new sail.



Last I a 30' boat instead of my 41 would have saved $528.



On the other hand the extra room and comfort of the 41' boat have been priceless.

This is fine until you need to replace major items like standing rigging, any part of the mast , engine parts , winches , anchoring systems etc

All these will be more then the proportion of size difference

[Quebramar]

I think the OP is looking for clues in costs. I have looked up originally 33 and 37 and found some datapoints. I don’t have details anymore but overall I would consider the following - just food for thought:
- purchase cost - likely to be higher for a bigger boat but very much dependent of state/maintenance, brand etc
- running costs: spends needed for the boat to be (going) where you want it - fuel, berthing costs, antifouling, insurance etc are a function primarily of size and to some extent of displacement, thus a rule of 3 could apply here
- maintenance/replacement: when looking up for parts, I noted that 33 and 37 fall in 2 adjacent classes, so replacing an anchor would be eg 33lb and 44lb respectively, sheets would be the next size up (like 12 vs 10mm) etc. This is primarily related to workload as someone highlighted above. Sails would need to be assessed specifically as needs differ widely and also the type of fabric used. Maybe 20% difference due to size and strength would be applicable.
Other equipment like galley, electronics etc could be comparable but usually 36 offer the next size up also
- to be complete and echo what Sailorboy mentioned: living costs (food, health, clothing) will be the same and will be a large part of total costs
Hope it helps. Intrinsic quality of boat build and of upgrades/replacement will help keep costs down over the long run, as well as preventive maintenance, I think.

[davil]

[QUOTE=Lady Captin;3507999]We have been researching our potential boat for over three years now. We have purchased a Tanzer 22 to learn to sail .

we all have our own comfort zones ,
__________________________________________________ ________

Howdy
My boat Martha Lei is a 1987 Cape Dory 30 MKII hull #3
I am 80 y/o so she is rigged for safety. Mostly to satisfy my daughter's worries while sailing.
Have seen your postings and finally posted recently,I try to stay away from getting involved in arguments, however every so often feel like contributing.
Opinions are expressed as firm acts of faith without regard to any room for discussion, discussions become a test of wills and eventually prefer to "switch channels"
I selected this particular model based on my screening criteria.
Should be small enough to be able to attend, refit and maintain on my own.
Should be seagoing and offer offshore capabilities, should protect me in case of serious conditions and if needed to close the hatch and let the boat take care of me instead of me take care of the boat.
This past May close to tropical storm Anna near Bermuda was able to test my theory and hopes, set the sails for heave to and went down to the cabin, slept for 24 hours, only lost 29 miles drifting and fully rested continued.
I am happy with my choice and not sure I understand the concept, bigger is better, nothing under 40 ft is safe?,.
30 ft vs. 40 even 50 ft, we are small corks at the mercy of the ocean.
As far as comfort,I am very comfy, have all I need
Have a 35 PUR Power Survivor water maker from my previous boat, gives me 1.5 gallons per hour and was patronized on other forum as "well not many tanks you can fill?"
Anyway, if anything you like to check against another view, feel free to PM.
David
My disclaimer
Not interested on arguing or debating.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

This is fine until you need to replace major items like standing rigging, any part of the mast , engine parts , winches , anchoring systems etc

All these will be more then the proportion of size difference

Yes they cost more money. But in the big picture total cost to live and cruise on a boat it only adds a few %. Meanwhile the comfort factor of the larger rewards you everyday.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Yes they cost more money. But in the big picture total cost to live and cruise on a boat it only adds a few %. Meanwhile the comfort factor of the larger rewards you everyday.

Living on a boat consumes day to day spending just as you would if in a house or a rented apartment . Hence this cost is largely fixed and irrelevant.

The “ big “ picture costs are insurance ( higher ) marina fees ( considerably higher ) , replacement parts ( higher, often considerably )

For two people a well appointed 36 footer is more then adequate , falls into a relatively low cost space ( if anything can be regarded in boating as low cost )

Boaters are past masters at denial , otherwise we’d never have the damn things.

It’s a fatal fatal mistake to max out a purchase budget and then scrimp the replacement costs cause you’ve effectively consumed your budget.

[sailorboy1]

I am 100+% not interested in debating costs that I have tracked and shared. Do what ever you what to and believe any story that makes you happy.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I am 100+% not interested in debating costs that I have tracked and shared. Do what ever you what to and believe any story that makes you happy.

After 7 boats ranging in size from 8 metres to 14.5 metres all of which are documented on spreadsheets. I can comfortably say that in general running a larger boat is at the very least proportionally more expensive and in many cases greater than proportional. This assumes a consistent level of repair , maintenance and upgrades throughout the period of ownership.

[hpeer]

Just to offer a unasked for opinion……

IMHO LOA o LOD is a very poor way of comparing boat size. DISPLACEMENT, (or how big a hole in the water?) is more useful for comparison.

Intrinsically it literally describes the hole in the water, or how much volume you are buying and have available to use. It does not count above water space but there is a pretty direct correlation. It also (very generally) gives an idea of tankage and storage space.

Lets say you have 2 boats, both 33’ LOD. One has a displacement of 9,000 pounds and the other 13,000 pounds. That is a BIG difference between boats that otherwise look similar. The 9,000 pound boat will have very shallow bilges and likely be very “lively.” The 13,000 pound boat will compare more to a 13,000 38’ boat in volume, but will be slower. And also manufacturers often make a boat 3’ longer by adding a swim step or small sprit.

I am not saying don’t look at LOD, but also get used to looking at displacement. And then always look at how the LOD is calculated.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Just to offer a unasked for opinion……

IMHO LOA o LOD is a very poor way of comparing boat size. DISPLACEMENT, (or how big a hole in the water?) is more useful for comparison.

Intrinsically it literally describes the hole in the water, or how much volume you are buying and have available to use. It does not count above water space but there is a pretty direct correlation. It also (very generally) gives an idea of tankage and storage space.

Lets say you have 2 boats, both 33’ LOD. One has a displacement of 9,000 pounds and the other 13,000 pounds. That is a BIG difference between boats that otherwise look similar. The 9,000 pound boat will have very shallow bilges and likely be very “lively.” The 13,000 pound boat will compare more to a 13,000 38’ boat in volume, but will be slower. And also manufacturers often make a boat 3’ longer by adding a swim step or small sprit.

I am not saying don’t look at LOD, but also get used to looking at displacement. And then always look at how the LOD is calculated.

Yes and at least one of the Pardey's "small" 30' sailboats had a displacement of around 17,500 lbs.

So be careful with the go "small" go now thing.....some small boats are 4,000 lbs displacement others much more

[boatman61]

Also known as... It don't matter how long it is, if the waterline is only 15ft that's basically your living space plus 4/5th of the beam.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

IMHO LOA o LOD is a very poor way of comparing boat size. DISPLACEMENT, (or how big a hole in the water?) is more useful for comparison.

Intrinsically it literally describes the hole in the water, or how much volume you are buying and have available to use. It does not count above water space but there is a pretty direct correlation. It also (very generally) gives an idea of tankage and storage space.

It's a really good point, and one worth reminding us about Hp. Boats of similar LOA can be dramatically different in volume and, therefore, carrying capacity for tankage and storage. My little 15 ton, 37-footer (36"9") has tankage and storage space well beyond what her LOA would suggest.