Boat Size !

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Just to offer a unasked for opinion……

IMHO LOA o LOD is a very poor way of comparing boat size. DISPLACEMENT, (or how big a hole in the water?) is more useful for comparison.

Intrinsically it literally describes the hole in the water, or how much volume you are buying and have available to use. It does not count above water space but there is a pretty direct correlation. It also (very generally) gives an idea of tankage and storage space.

Lets say you have 2 boats, both 33’ LOD. One has a displacement of 9,000 pounds and the other 13,000 pounds. That is a BIG difference between boats that otherwise look similar. The 9,000 pound boat will have very shallow bilges and likely be very “lively.” The 13,000 pound boat will compare more to a 13,000 38’ boat in volume, but will be slower. And also manufacturers often make a boat 3’ longer by adding a swim step or small sprit.

I am not saying don’t look at LOD, but also get used to looking at displacement. And then always look at how the LOD is calculated.

Yes, I consider the displacement/length figure more useful. The design may or may not necessarily have shallower bilges. My boat is skinny and a little deeper than one like a beamier Catalina 27, but the displacement is similar.

[lo2jones]

One of the main differences, size wise is 40 ft. Over 40 you don’t have to worry so much about what you take with you. Under and closer to 30, you have to be very careful about what you take because of overloading.

[captstu]

It all depends on the kind of sailing you are planning. I sold my 36' Pearson monohull for a 43' Voyage catamaran after doing several blue water trips (Bermuda, Virgin Islands from the mainland) and living on board for a few years.

Bought the 43' cat for long distance blue water travel, first trip was from Capetown to Trinidad - she had solar, battery air conditioning, washer/dryer and so on. But, she was expensive and demanding to insure, maintain and feed.

After several years of blue water, I sold her for a 20+ year old Gemini, a 34 foot catamaran. Replaced the engine, rewired her, replumbed the propane and so on. Made a number of East Coast trips - as far as Cap Cod and Key West - some offshore in good weather and some in the ICW. Her narrow air and water draft permitted a few trips across the Okeechobee Waterway - something that was impossible in the Voyage.

I considered all boats safe for their intended purpose - but was willing to trade only good weather trips to the Bahamas for the ability to beach the Gemini, travel in very thin water with nearly thoughts of damage and trading ample below deck space (about 900 sq ft on the Voyage) for limited but sufficient space for a couple and an occasional guest

I missed the walk in shower, the towels fresh out of the dryer on a cold day and unlimited water maker - didn't take on shore water for 5 years. But I had sufficient solar power for a good fridge, and adequate shade.

There is no perfect boat - I can't honestly tell you witch boat brought the most pleasure - making port after 10 weeks at sea is hard to compare to a side trip in Lake Okeechobee to "go where no boat has gone before" - at least not in several weeks.

The Voyage cost me about $4k/month for depreciation, insurance and maintenance. The Gemini cost less than 1/4th of that. Bigger isn't always better - they both had the same brand of high quality foam mattress. The Gem had better ventilation than anything else I've ever owned - but the Voyage had at anchor air conditioning.

Think about exactly how you want to sail for the first year - your sailing plans may evolve over time and boat changes may be the best solution.

All boats are better than any park bench.

[davil]

Think about exactly how you want to sail for the first year - your sailing plans may evolve over time and boat changes may be the best solution.

All boats are better than any park bench.[/QUOTE]
================================
amen to that

[sengland]

Its all about economics. I bought a 34ft floating project for $500. After a new engine $5k, new sails $3k, through hulls, prop, shaft, electrics, interior decorating, ~$3k .....so with $10k ans lots of labor, I now have a $22k boat that is capable and strong enough to cross oceans, which it did do in its previous life. We probably never will, but its great for local marina hopping, overnight ocean passages and night anchoring. Would I like to go bigger? Sure, but as previously mentioned marina fees increase, as do haul outs, gallons of antifoul, efforts to clean etc....all increase.
For us 34' and specifically this design is perfect for us, a family of 3.
The little one sleeps in the bow cabin and we have the main cabin. We have wind speed/direction and depth sounder, we don't have fixed navionics, we use Aps and a GPS enabled iPad.
Good luck in your decision.
Stuart
(See 'sailing with faith' YouTube)

[Bill_Giles]

My limiting factor is hoisting and reefing the mainsail which I think is in the same realm as furling the genoa. Given my preferences and unlimited money I’d go for 36 - 42ft ketch with a cutter on an inner forestay plus some power winches.

[Kolchac]

1. BB - bigger - better.
2. Price is not well correlated with the length.
3. many marinas have price list for maintenance per foot ~20% higher for length started from 40'

[LouK]

Frankly, I think the difference in O&M costs between 30-36 feet are somewhat marginal. As an example, the cost of electronics is about the same. Sure the cost of a new main and jib will be maybe $2k more but it terms of livability, comfort and a sense of safety between the two, heavily weighted toward the larger boat. I haven't looked at prices of 30 footers in some time, but am sure there are plenty of good used boats in the 34-36 foot range that are can be had in the $25-$35K range.

Remember that as you become more experienced you'll likely venture farther afield and the first time you get into hairy stuff, you'll likely appreciate a larger boat. Still concerned, take some courses and learn to work on the boat yourself and this is where you'll save loads of money. As others have mentioned, the advantages of being able to carry more fuel and water are also worth consideration, as well.

[dannc]

Here is my monthly reference to Morgan's Clouds cost discussion and spreadsheet.

Morgan's Cloud is mostly behind a paywall but it is worth the cost. There is a discussion about boat costs and a spreadsheet. The spreadsheet takes in variables such as displacement, miles sailed, how well maintained is the boat, who does the work, etc, to arrive at an estimated cost.

https://www.morganscloud.com/2014/07...ging-sailboat/

We have been sailing on a 32 foot boat for the last few years and are transitioning to a 38 foot boot. The smaller boat is supposed to be 11,000 pounds while the larger one is 14,500 pounds. After the first day of sailing the larger boat, the wifey says it sure was calm out there today. Ah, no, the wave height and period was what is usual for us, the difference was the larger, heavier boat.

The larger boat is far easier to sail. More area on deck and the cockpit to move around. We don't see any difference in handling the sails and we actually helped put on new sails on our last trip. We are having to adjust to the larger boat when docking because the little bit of extra free board along with the extra beam makes it hard to see the dock. It looks like one is about to hit the dock but in reality one is a good number of feet from the dock. Just something to get used too.

Later,
Dan

[sengland]

sailorboy1
Totally agree with sailorboy 1,
Three times the cost for a boat 36ft to 25ft is not a good guide.
Cost of ownership in general terms, when averaging 5 years would be about a 1/3rd more. Because you have a 1/3rd more haul out costs, 1/3rd more sail to replace, the engine might be 1/3 bigger and you might use a 1/3rd more antifoul paint with a 1/3 more through hulls to maintain and ropes would be 1/3 longer with slippage costing a 1/3rd more.
Eating and living would be the same, unless you have a crew.

[LargeMarge]

On YouTube, eighty-year old life-long sailor-builder Sven Yrvind offers daily up-dates while he assembles his latest contraption... a twenty-foot for extended off-shore cruises.
.
Apparently, he 'travels' (some might call it 'lolly-gagging'...) months off-shore -- without re-supply -- on his home-made sailboats.
This version is foam...
.
.
PS:
Apparently, his surname translates as 'Whirlwind'!

[Ltfdrebbin]

We are much less experienced than others on this forum. That being said, we bought a 42' boat this year. The size has been extremely comfortable for our family of 4 and the many friends we have had on board. The size has allowed us to leave the dock when many smaller boats had to stay in. Best of all, we are not already shopping for a larger boat.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Lady Captin

Hi , this is Lady Captains first mate , lol .

I have a question, and I realize that it is not an easy answer! I know there are a tons of variables in the question! I am not looking for a definitive answer per say!
More just some positive feedback, to think about !

We are looking to purchase our first blue water sail boat in the next couple of years and we are really torn between the size of boat ! We have done a good deal of research and know bigger boats means greater cost !

However we are wondering just how much the cost Is affected between say a 30 foot boat and a 36 foot boat , regarding maintenance and running cost . As we all know Lin and Larry Pardy , did the world on a very small boat , so it’s do able ! However for those that have upsized maybe 5-6 feet how have you found it cost wise .

Given a greater purchase price as a given , looking for some positive, dare I say kind thoughtful insight from those who have tackled the same issue in their own minds !

I am not looking to compare specific boats ,as that is can of worms , lol . More just some experience with going bigger , or perhaps even smaller and lessons learned.

Ps , just to be clear 36 foot would be at the top of our budget and consideration, this is a personal decision, based on personal financial and research considerations, thank you !
Thank you Paul

I also learned to sail on a Tanzer 22. It was the fixed keel model and I learned on San Pablo Bay and San Francisco Bay, CA.

Next boat was a 17 year old San Juan 28 in Puget Sound. Transition from the Tanzer 22 was easy, the only big difference was the inboard diesel I knew nothing about. Boat was in good condition with a fairly new engine from an owner getting out of sailing. Original sails/rigging were in reasonable shape but probably not for racing...but I don't race. Owned it for 11 years and sailed much of BC, Queen Charlotte Islands (now known as Haida Gwaii) solo, and solo to Ketchikan Alaska. A great solo sailing boat for extended sailing but less so for a couple. I sold the boat for the same price I bought it.

With time, I developed a desire to sail Bluewater. So, I did a Vancouver Island circumnavigation to get a small taste of the Pacific and learned that I needed a boat designed for Bluewater. I spent five years researching boats building a data base of over 3,000 boats in varying configurations and ended up with a handful of boats to consider that fit my hard desires and ratios. I ended up with a 42' cutter that was bigger than what I needed but fit my requirements and my available funds but needed work and was located on the other side of the country. Transition to this boat was much more involved due to purchase location and the numerous systems onboard I was not familiar with...a novel for another time. I have now owned that boat for over 14 years.

So, I think you are on the right track in looking for a boat designed for the offshore waters you intend to travel...what are those and any particular specification needed, such as a draft limitation for shallow waters?

As the boat you will end up with will be used your choice will be among those that are available. Therefore, visit as many boats as possible and get a feel for what is acceptable and what is not. Overall, your search should be more aligned with a range of specifications rather than specific makes/models at this point so that you can build a list of boats that are acceptable to you. Keep your focus on the basics: hull, rudder, rigging, sails, tankage, and engine; some are much harder to refit than others and all are expensive. The rest is negotiable.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[nofacey]

Longer is more comfortable to both live in & do long passages offshore.
- your mate will be happier in 36ft, therefore you will be happier.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Lady Captin

Hi , this is Lady Captains first mate , lol .

I have a question, and I realize that it is not an easy answer! I know there are a tons of variables in the question! I am not looking for a definitive answer per say!
More just some positive feedback, to think about !

We are looking to purchase our first blue water sail boat in the next couple of years and we are really torn between the size of boat ! We have done a good deal of research and know bigger boats means greater cost !

However we are wondering just how much the cost Is affected between say a 30 foot boat and a 36 foot boat , regarding maintenance and running cost . As we all know Lin and Larry Pardy , did the world on a very small boat , so it’s do able ! However for those that have upsized maybe 5-6 feet how have you found it cost wise .

Given a greater purchase price as a given , looking for some positive, dare I say kind thoughtful insight from those who have tackled the same issue in their own minds !

I am not looking to compare specific boats ,as that is can of worms , lol . More just some experience with going bigger , or perhaps even smaller and lessons learned.


Ps , just to be clear 36 foot would be at the top of our budget and consideration, this is a personal decision, based on personal financial and research considerations, thank you !
Thank you Paul

The size of the boat will depend on what you are comfortable with. When you say blue water cruising, I'll assume you're leaving Manitoba and heading at least to the Great Lakes. Having sailed extensively on a 30'er that would have handled ocean crossings pretty easily, I can tell you if I had to spend more than a week on it, I'd have lost my mind. Many folks are tougher than me (some less) and could handle living on a smallish boat for many days at a time. Of the You Tube couples I've watched with 30' boats, most if not all of them, moved to a larger boat at their first opportunity. I'm not saying that what happens on You Tube is the definitive truth for all things sailing but what does seem obvious is that if there's any doubt in your mind, go larger. The last thing you'd want to do is fix up a 30'er and then decide you really needed the 36 - refitting can cost more than the boat and you don't want to be doing it twice.