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Dave9111 · 30-10-2017, 19:50

Forget about buying a trawler unless you have deep pockets. I don't think there are any cheap trawlers with diesel/s that don't need major $$ to fix.

I would go after the biggest shoal draft sailboat you can find that has a reasonable cost. There are lots of 29-32 ft boats built in the 70's to 80's that are selling at near giveaway prices. These aren't trailerable, but you aren't going to need a trailer. You will get several bunks, a battery bank, a shower, usually a water heater, water tanks, a real toilet, places to store food and clothes, a sink, a stove, a place for a microwave, etc. Get yourself an inverter that can run off at least two house batteries and you can make hot instant coffee in the morning in a minute. Nice. :-)

Many of these boats have Atomic 4 gas engines, but that is ok. They can be made very reliable. (check out Moyer Marine for parts ) They burn usually less than a gallon per hour, more like 3/4 gallon per hour when pushing a 30 ft boat at 5.5 mph. The engine is loafing at that speed and if taken care of and maintained will last a very long time. The sound is also nice at that speed. Make sure you have a 3 blade prop on it. That's like 4 wheel drive for a sailboat. If your engine has issues it will not cost a fortune to fix. Parts and entire engines are readily available. Next, add a outboard motor mount to the transom and hang a 9.9 hp engine on it. Get a 4 stroke if you can. It doesn't have to be new but it has to be a good engine. That's your backup. If you have engine issues you start up the outboard and continue until you can fix the Atomic 4. The outboard burns gas.. same as the Atomic 4. You can't do this with a diesel. In fact if your diesel acts up, fixing it will be much more difficult than an Atomic 4.
Regarding the sails; There is a lot of sailing to do on the great loop and a lot of the motoring can be done with the mast up. If you get a nice breeze, hoist the sails and take a ride. Make a mast holder that can support your mast over your head on the boat when its down so it doesn't get in the way too much. When doing the great lakes, you will want sails up to stabilize the boat. A sailboat motoring in rough water is a much rougher ride than if you have the sails up as the sails drive the boat through the waves and stabilizes the boat. 2 ft waves on the east side of Lake Michigan is considered pretty flat water.
Make sure you buy an autopilot. The best one you can afford. If you are single handing it will free you from the wheel or tiller and it makes ALL of the difference. If you can't afford a new one, buy a good used one. You need an autopilot.

I currently have a sailboat on Lake Erie and I am almost always singlehanding it. My wife has been on it twice in 4 years and that was only while it was tied up at the dock. She is simply NOT a boat person.... so I can relate.

A 29-32 ft sailboat is an entirely different animal than your WWP. It will have a real table, sink, cupboards, etc. So if she wants to buy some pillows for it, a table cloth, place mats, curtains, etc... she might feel differently about. Or, like my wife, maybe not!

BandB · 30-10-2017, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave9111

I currently have a sailboat on Lake Erie and I am almost always singlehanding it. My wife has been on it twice in 4 years and that was only while it was tied up at the dock. She is simply NOT a boat person.... so I can relate.

She might be a boat person if you had a trawler with space and comfort. Don't put down boats others like. They all have their places.

valhalla360 · 30-10-2017, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by geoleo

I suggest a canoe for the loop-it has unlimited headroom,

Met a guy doing just that...didn't look fun.

A sailboat is a good option but not so much for the sailing part.
- About 1/3 of the route, you need the mast down and another 1/3, it more hassle than it's worth to try and sail.
- The advantage is an efficient motoring platform.

I'm assuming the wife wants something bigger and more comfortable. Problem with small monohull sailboats motoring with the mast down is they are very unstable and uncomfortable and on the river system and ICW, you will deal with wakes. The only place we took water over the bow was passing a tow on the Mississippi coming up river. They were throwing what must have been a 6' wake and they needed that power to make headway against the current.

A small catamaran is a good option and what we did the loop on. Very shallow draft, stable with mast down and good fuel efficiency.
- Gemini
- Catalac
- Endeavor
- Etc...

brownoarsman · 31-10-2017, 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by valhalla360

A small catamaran is a good option and what we did the loop on. Very shallow draft, stable with mast down and good fuel efficiency.
- Gemini
- Catalac
- Endeavor
- Etc...

I would also add a Telstar 28 trimaran. Mast can be raised and lowered easily by a single-hander. Purchase price between $40-$60k. With the amas folded in, motoring speed with a 20 hp up to 10 knots reasonably.

valhalla360 · 31-10-2017, 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

I would also add a Telstar 28 trimaran. Mast can be raised and lowered easily by a single-hander. Purchase price between $40-$60k. With the amas folded in, motoring speed with a 20 hp up to 10 knots reasonably.

For a single guy, I would say yes but given the idea of keeping the wife happy, it's pretty limited interior space for a long duration trip.

Also not sure of the range under power. You need a minimum around 250 mile range to get from St. Louis to Kentucky Lake.

rwidman · 31-10-2017, 06:16

If you're thinking of doing the loop at 30 knots, you might as well just do it by car. Forget the boat.

J Clark H356 · 31-10-2017, 06:32

You should seriously consider your comfort. Get a boat with some amenities, generator that can run HVAC to keep you warm or cool, an enclosure if not a Pilot house. Radar, AIS, and other electronics and learn how to dock and lock. Taking the mast up and down is not nearly as big a deal as most make it. It’s a minor cost compared to the rest. You will be in the boat a year if typical loop trip. Do you want to let the mast drive your comfort for a year?
Most of your travels will be motoring or motor sailing. All of the Tenn-Tom and either GICW or ICW will be, but a mid sized 35 +/- sized sailboat or trawler will make your trip both economical,and comfortable. There are days with intense fog, cold weather, and steamy hot humidity. I’ve not done the loop, but been from Kentucky Lake down Tenn-Tom to Southwest Florida twice and back once.

I have a Hunter 356 with all of the above comforts and it was pleasurable. My boat neighbor did the loop in his 356 without a generator or enclosure and was very comfortable. On the northern part of Kentucky Lake we see a lot of loopers. They come in all types of boats and all have a good time, but we have seen some cold and uncomfortable people too.

Dave9111 · 31-10-2017, 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

She might be a boat person if you had a trawler with space and comfort. Don't put down boats others like. They all have their places.

You do not know my wife. She gets motion sickness very easily. Its not a space thing. Its a physical, inner ear thing. This is more common that you might think. My attempt to lure her aboard a 40 displacement power boat did not work and that was 25+ years ago.
I have nothing against people with stink pots. ;-)
So... you are a little "sensitive", err...thin skinned. Oh well. Sorry to hear that. BTW, I have more than one power boat and more than one sailboat. :-) So go judge someone else or else work on your "sensitivity" issue.

brownoarsman · 31-10-2017, 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by valhalla360

For a single guy, I would say yes but given the idea of keeping the wife happy, it's pretty limited interior space for a long duration trip.

Also not sure of the range under power. You need a minimum around 250 mile range to get from St. Louis to Kentucky Lake.

Very true. I'm still confused in this thread if the wife is going to join or not, no matter what the boat ...

Jarlsbergn · 31-10-2017, 08:39

After lots of research (mostly my wife) we bought a 1984 Prout Snowgoose we keep on lake Superior with plans to do the loop in the next few years. Even though most of it will be motoring we still wanted the option to sail and plan on heading over to the Bahamas during the trip. Taking the mast off and storing on deck for a while is a hassle but after doing it once it really wasn't that big of a deal, and didn't cost that much especially if you can do some of it yourself.

We like the stability of a catamaran platform at anchor and the shallow draft. Our preference was to find a boat with two engines, even though its twice the maintenance and cost. Our engines are diesel and seem to be pretty efficient, we can travel at 6.5-7 knots on one engine and can carry 70 gallons of fuel so we have some range. We like having the maneuverability when docking or in locks and the redundancy if an engine has trouble we can keep moving while we find parts. Like most people be were limited to a certain price range so we decided on an updated older catamaran, with as many amenities as we could fit in it because it seemed to be the most livable for us and the best compromise.

Dave9111 · 31-10-2017, 09:12

The thing that is missing here is his budget. That will dictate if a trawler is even feasible. I am guess he is living on a fairly tight budget.

Regarding fuel consumption of an Atomic 4 in a 33 ft sailboat; The weekend before last I motored my 33 ft sailboat down Lake Erie. This was suppose to be a sailing trip, but there was insufficient wind and it was on the nose. I fired up the reliable Atomic 4, filled up the tank at the gas dock and took off for Put in Bay. I had 3-4 mph headwinds and motored for 6.5 hours to get there at about 5.3 knots according to the GPS. Its a 36 mile run. Before I departed the next day I measured the fuel level on the stick with a tape measure. I calculate that I burned about 4.6 gallons. That nets 7.8 mpg with a mild headwind. I thought the longest run without gas on the loop was about 300 miles? So if you got 7 mpg you would need 43 gallons of gas. My sailboat tank holds 20 gallons.

I'm partial to these No-Spill gas cans. If you had 6 of these cans on deck you would be all set. Or you could install another gas tank in the boat. My current sailboat had another 20 gallon tank installed in the cockpit locker but I removed it as it was a haphazard installation.

https://www.amazon.com/No-Spill-1450...spill+5+gallon

tsl · 31-10-2017, 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarlsbergn

After lots of research (mostly my wife) we bought a 1984 Prout Snowgoose we keep on lake Superior with plans to do the loop in the next few years. Even though most of it will be motoring we still wanted the option to sail and plan on heading over to the Bahamas during the trip. Taking the mast off and storing on deck for a while is a hassle but we wanted to do it on a sailboat. We like the stability of a cat at anchor and the shallow draft. Our preference was to find a boat with two engines, even though its twice the maintenance and cost. Our engines are diesel and seem to be pretty efficient, we can travel at 6.5-7 knots on one engine and can carry 70 gallons of fuel so we have some range. We like having the maneuverability when docking or in locks and the redundancy if an engine has trouble we can keep moving while we find parts. Like most people be were limited to a certain price range so we decided on an updated older catamaran, with as many amenities as we could fit in it because it seemed to be the most livable for us and the best compromise.

We see many cats doing the loop. I don't know the length of your mast but you might consider shipping it to Mobile from Chicago. I've got a monohull and my stick extends ten feet both fore and aft. A real pain with all the docking and locking. Smaller sailboats may want to keep their stick on board since there is nice sailing on Kentucky lake but for larger boats, getting the sails and stick off the boat is nice. Contact Christie Turner at Turner Marine (Mobile Alabama) she coordinates with Albert Logistics and marinas in Chicago. Together they prep the mast for shipment, palatize the sails and meet you down south where Turner steps the mast. Turner can also haul out a cat with travellift that can handle 22 ft beam.

BandB · 31-10-2017, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave9111

You do not know my wife. She gets motion sickness very easily. Its not a space thing. Its a physical, inner ear thing. This is more common that you might think. My attempt to lure her aboard a 40 displacement power boat did not work and that was 25+ years ago.
I have nothing against people with stink pots. ;-)

Well, I'll offer this. If she wants to go boating and not get sea sick, there are ways. Most seasickness can be eliminated with stabilizers, to the surprise of many. Full displacement boats do roll a lot and are very bad for seasickness if not stabilized. Also meds help.

Now, I grant she's not likely at this point to have any desire to go and that's fine. We have great friends/extended family, who will not step on a boat due to one even 50 years ago at a church camp.

VBsail · 31-10-2017, 10:39

At least three different retired couples completed the loop it in 26' macgregor powersailors last year and blogged their trips. From their postings they were very happy with their vessel choice for the trip. They mostly cruised at low speeds and reported their fuel consumption averages. One bought the boat just for the trip and left the mast at home, another sailed as much as possible.

One of the blogs:
Great Loop Cruise | Log of the Chinook