Boat Swamped - Should I walk away from the purchase?

[ErnestV]

regex, there are still questions I'd ask, preferably the yard manager who had this boat for repair, before continuing with the survey. If they had to glass around the keel, ask him if they had removed the keel and inspected or replaced the keel bolts? These were my biggest issues with this boat, besides what had already been mentioned here with hidden creeping delamination in the bulwarks. And if they didn't look at the keel bolts I would have the keel removed and everything around this thoroughly inspected. Of course the seller would need to compensate for this, which basically means I'd not continue if he wasn't willing to accept a price not above 50% market value.

Keep us informed about your further steps, this story sounds interesting ;-)

[ErnestV]

Originally Posted by Tricolor

This is about the OP and not about the boat. It's a problem between his ears. Forget this boat and find one that not keeps you awake at night.

You still need to show me a boat that would NOT keep me awake at night

[Blaine]

Your broker should have provided you with a list of at least three surveyors to potentially retain for a survey. You don't need to commission a survey in order to talk with them. I would call your first choice (or even all of them) and ask them the same questions you've asked here. If they were in your position, would they still entertain buying this boat? At what discount to market price? What would their main concerns be, and could they be adequately addressed in a survey? Good luck

[t588143]

If the structural repair has been done properly there is no issue and you may get a very good deal. Forget the whole story, buy the boat and have lots of fun.

[dotgone]

I purchased a 'swamped boat' in 2000. A hunter legend. Bought it for 20 cents on the dollar........... and I still lost money. I kept the boat for 11 years. Every year I had to spend probably 5 grand and 200 hours. I did have to repower, reset mast and rigging and rewire. Good experience .. never do it again.
Run do not walk from this deal.
Thank me later...

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by ErnestV

You still need to show me a boat that would NOT keep me awake at night

Missed your change, just sold my boat. When you has bought my boat you has now slept like "Sleeping Beauty" and needed to be kissed every morning to wake

[tweitz]

Late to the thread, but my Beneteau 323 was partially sunk when launched about 4 years ago. The yard failed to notice an open seacock from winter storage. Because it was tied to a floating dock, the boat did not completely sink, but the stern went under and there was water inside to about midway on the cabin sole. The yard saw it the following morning and immediately hauled the boat, pickled the engine and started assessing the situation. It was very distressing. The yard did not try to deflect blame and stood behind everything being done. I had my own surveyor as well as the yard's review the work in detail.
Ultimately, the engine was fine, all the wiring was replaced, new starter, alternator, etc., new mattresses, batteries, interior dehumidified for weeks, careful assessment of everything else. I can't remember every detail, but everything that was a question was replaced. I was quite worried at first, but after several seasons with no problems at all, I am comfortable that the net result was to replace a lot of parts that would be 13 years old today with much newer ones. I would follow the exceedingly careful survey advice, but not automatically walk away. My biggest concern in your case was that they had to replace the mast. That implies a really big impact, and that would worry me the most. In my case, I know the boat simply settled at no speed. A big impact may carry additional concerns.

[01kiwijohn]

boat may be fine, broker/seller is a snake. Revise offer to lower than lowball.

[mitgroup]

Walk away. Latent damage is almost a given especially in the engine, joinery, chainplates, etc...

[gulfislandfred]

I have bought, repaired, and resold (always with full disclosure at first contact) a couple of boats that had sunk, and several that had water above the engine, but didn't sink. I lived aboard, in Port Townsend, for almost 30 years, hundreds of boats in the yards at any one time, lots of repairs. Coffee at the marina coffee shops covered the latest interesting jobs, with mechanics, shipwrights, owners, and people who had just read the latest book (and often had the strongest opinions. Here are a few of my considered opinions, based on that, and over 50 years of experience with boats:


If the engine is properly flushed and run IMMEDIATELY after the water comes out of it, and the transmission is dealt with appropriately (different for different transmissions) the engine can be considered as good as before it sunk. (this is based on numerous surveys by tough surveyors)


Repairs to glass structure, if done properly, are normally stronger than the original structure.


Wiring and electronics that have touched salt water must ALL be replaced, in order for the repair to pass a rigorous survey (I have got by with non compliance of this, but at a serious cost in resale value)


It makes a big difference what kind of plywood is in the boat, especially the bulkheads. If all the plywood was BS1088 (Bryuneel/Okume/Maranti WITH the BS1088 stamp), then you have no fear of delamination. You can find out about the plywood from the manufacturer.



The sellers are worried. This is the time to negotiate, if you want the boat, at any price. Answer that question first, then offer half, or less, of market value for an unscathed boat. Don't be afraid to make a real lowball offer. I have offered half to a third of asking price on boats, in good condition, that have been on the market for a while, and, after an initial refusal, had my offer accepted a few weeks (or in one case three months) later.


If you don't get this boat, offer your 30% under market on nice boats that you like, one at a time. If you make 10 offers, you will (in my experience) have your choice of two or three accepted. Look for good boats that haven't had the decks washed for a long time, boats that have been on the market longest, or, if you don't mind sanding, boats with outside brightwork neglected. If the broker tells you they won't take your offer, sk them to submit it any way. I have had numerous brokers say the owner wouldn't take my offer, initially get a refusal, then get a call later. (they thought I would counter)

Good Luck, and enjoy this. The chase is part of the fun

[davefrediam]

There are ten pages of replies here yet not one seems to cover (I may have missed it in rushing through all the posts) what immediately jumps to my mind!
I wouldn't just walk away from this boat but this model of boat and perhaps even the manufacturer altogether!
The thought just catching the tip of the rudder on the ground can basically rip the bottom out of the boat and sink it (although the owner claims it didnt sink, it was clearly a possibility without immediate aide) horrifies me (I have grounded yachts a fair few times over the years).
I am sure that some of you will be thinking that it would happen to any yacht with a spade rudder type rudder, well from my experience looking after charter yachts I can assure that is not the case. One of the yachts chartered, a Hanse 371 had a spade rudder that was as deep as the keel and its rudder was regularly damaged from grounding (at least 3 times a year). This resulted in the bottom third of the rudder, the whole rudder and the whole rudder and shaft being replaced on occasion depending on the severity of damage. But obviously due to its design there was NEVER any damage to the hull or water ingress!

Happy sailing guys

Dave

[Toujours]

Talk to a couple potential insurers...if they won't touch it then you probably shouldn't either.
Noticed that a lot of the replacement gear was electronics that might be in the cockpit. That might imply there was a lot of water during the "swamping". Also noticed that the steering was repaired, not replaced. If the rudder got hit wouldn't you expect more extensive work than "repair"

[achil]

Originally Posted by regex

Your second point is the one that is really getting under my skin. I think after talking to the boatyard I can get past the issue of "what else am I going to find" but the fact that the boat will always have this storied history is going to bug the hell out of me.

Look at it this way; if you are buying it at a 30% discount and you sell it at a 30% discount, you are out nothing. If I were in your shoes I would go back to the boatyard and ask them why more work was not done on the engine. If their response doesn't satisfy you, hire a mechanic to check the engine out. If there is something wrong with it, you can go back to the negotiating table, if not, go ahead with the rest of your due diligence. Good luck, whichever way you go.

[Cheechako]

Nope, dont buy it at any more than near salvage price.

[Slowy]

You will be getting a good deal by looks of what's been replaced. Spend the money on a reputable surveyor. His advice will be worth more than 1000 opinions published in this thread.