Boat Swamped - Should I walk away from the purchase?

[Giro]

There are almost as many used boats on the sea as there are fish in the sea. You should find one. It would be difficult to fully enjoy the ride with so much lingering doubt.

[WKW]

I think you have your answer...but the more you hear from us asswhaffles it'll help bring you to a decision. We had two 30+ year old sailboats bought for cheap with cash in hand. Being small 27 feet, inexpensive and with an outboard it was easy to inspect all systems without a survey and buy without a broker. Both boats recouped the investment after the first season. It's when I decided to move up to a newer model 32 footer, I learned the ugly side of brokerages and the risk of dropping big cash on a possible can of worms. 2 solid years of searching for my next boat and dealing with brokers I learned 75% have been dishonest, ignorant about boat specs and sharing the bad info about the boat after I see the issues.... a few times I clearly asked specific questions and learned the fools were ignorant or clearly lied when answering... after several hours driving to see for myself! The fact that they waited to tell you anything seems right on with the shitty 75%. If your really lusting after this boat and commit to the purchase...get another 10% off, ask the broker for recommendations of a good surveyor and DO NOT USE THEM. Find your own after reading reviews. I have much respect for all of you guys that drop big cash on used boats...It takes big balls

[4palmer]

Offer half of what he wants. If the shipyard says its good, its probably good.

[Lnewman]

Too many posts to read, but early on you made some comment that you couldn't afford the boat this size unless you bought an older boat. Just remember that newer does not always equate to better. There are plenty of old boats that are a heck of a lot better than a newer boat. How well the owner cared for the boat is very important regardless of age.

Regarding this boat that had been swamped....there is no way I'd spend a dime on it. Too many other boats to choose from.

[Joe Okros]

Skimming through these posts reminded me why I bought an ancient 36 ft Morgan OI for not much money. --THICK fibreglass, encapsulated keel, a rudder not affected by grounding etc etc etc.

[thataway41]

Here is a big problem I see with this boat:

"Cut out a delamination section next to keel joint and laid new fiberglass"

These boats were built fairly lightly In hull construction--with an interior "grid", to give additional support (including the engine bearers).

The keel hit hard--of course it would in the surf near Marina del Ray. Vessels which run around in the surf have significant damage.

My biggest question is what lamination schedule was used, if epoxy (I would insist on epoxy or at least vinyl ester resin; not polyester resin) was used in the repair. I had a friend who I had warned about this type of issue with a Benateau--he bought a boat which had run aground and had grid damage, cosmetically repaired....He had continuous problems with the boat.

If you are just going to sail the boat locally, to Catalina on good days, come home early in the day, to avoid going to weather, or use the boat mostly as a day sailor--then OK...knowing the lowered resale. If you have any aspirations of long voyages, even to San Francisco or Mexico--which both involve serious beats to weather--forget this boat.

[H20skibumn]

I would have them pay for a moisture test. If it passes. I would move forward as long as you say. “Everything was replaced “

[Tony Roberts]

I would pass this by at ANY price - and for a different reason to prior replies. There are only two types of sailors; those that have run aground, and those that have yet to run aground. The issue is NOT the repairs, the issue is the type of boat you have in mind. Having cruised 30,000 offshore miles we met distressed sailors all over the world with keel and rudder issues. One little grounding in a shallow area with a fin keel and spade rudder will ruin your entire year. If you have ANY potential to cruise in “skinny” water get yourself a decent cruising boat with a long keel (preferably moulded into the hull) and at the very least a skeg hung rudder. When a fin keeled boat grounds, the keel indents the hull aft and fractures the interior reinforcements. Spade rudders are a no no for serious offshore sailors. Over time the side-flexing of the shaft at every turn fatigues the metal which WILL eventually fail. Ask any repair yard! Duh!

[wa1bda]

One question: would you ever buy a "Katrina" car?

[SteveSadler]

Sounds like a professional repair replacing anything that could have been damaged, 3 years gone by for anything else to surface. Your surveyor will find any residual problems.
You get a newer bigger boat than otherwise could afford.
Whats not to like here? Unless you're superstitious.
Boats have been damaged and repaired since the first log was hollowed out, professional repairs are as reliable as new.

[ErnestV]

Originally Posted by Tricolor

Missed your change, just sold my boat.

Well, you just had your second happy moment then I presume

[Tiara Mike]

I purchased a powerboat like this ,

Saved a ton of money and was able to purchase a boat I normally could not afford, had the boat 10 years and 350 awesome hours of family enjoyment, New England, Nantucket waters and Bahamas and Exumas waters, check it thoroughly and understand some issues could pop up and well that's boating as new boats have issues too

I say buy it and enjoy it

[Chris Robb]

Originally Posted by thataway41

Here is a big problem I see with this boat:

These boats were built fairly lightly In hull construction--with an interior "grid", to give additional support (including the engine bearers).

The keel hit hard--of course it would in the surf near Marina del Ray. Vessels which run around in the surf have significant damage.

My biggest question is what lamination schedule was used, if epoxy (I would insist on epoxy or at least vinyl ester resin; not polyester resin) was used in the repair. I had a friend who I had warned about this type of issue with a Benateau--he bought a boat which had run aground and had grid damage, cosmetically repaired....He had continuous problems with the boat.

If you are just going to sail the boat locally, to Catalina on good days, come home early in the day, to avoid going to weather, or use the boat mostly as a day sailor--then OK...knowing the lowered resale. If you have any aspirations of long voyages, even to San Francisco or Mexico--which both involve serious beats to weather--forget this boat.

Many surveyors hate surveying yachts constructed like the Bene with the interior grid. It can take several years after an incident for the debonding of the Grid to become apparent. In 3 years time you may well come back to the boat to find her sagging on her keel as the delamination finally shows - Then you have a major cost to repair that. The thing is that the problems cannot be seen except of course in the areas that were so severely damaged.

Given that damage, I would expect to find plenty more hidden damage which will not show even with a good surveyor.

Find another.

[Chris Robb]

Originally Posted by ErnestV

regex, there are still questions I'd ask, preferably the yard manager who had this boat for repair, before continuing with the survey. If they had to glass around the keel, ask him if they had removed the keel and inspected or replaced the keel bolts? These were my biggest issues with this boat, besides what had already been mentioned here with hidden creeping delamination in the bulwarks. And if they didn't look at the keel bolts I would have the keel removed and everything around this thoroughly inspected. Of course the seller would need to compensate for this, which basically means I'd not continue if he wasn't willing to accept a price not above 50% market value.

Keep us informed about your further steps, this story sounds interesting ;-)

Forget the keel bolts - they are the least of the problem.

The Grid structure delamination WILL be your problem and it may not show yet. Any other form of construction other than this Grid structure, I might consider buying - but not a badly grounded boat with Grid structure.

I note from your invoice summary that there was some delamination around the keel where it was repaired. This is actually a cosmetic repair - No mention of rebonding the grid. There will be a problem....

[syohana]

Did this happen in salt water or fresh water? If salt water, ask for a further 50% off or walk away. if fresh water then you might get lucky, ask for at least another 25% off the price and potentially get a real bargain, but only if you plan to keep her long term, she will be hard to sell so factor in an extra year of marina fees and maintenance in the price which will be spent while you wait to sell her.

As Boatman rightly pointed out, any residual salt will attract and hold moisture, causing rot. That's the least of it though. All metal interior fittings are suspect. These boats are built to a price and interior fittings are not likely to be marine grade stainless. They will have salt inside them, behind them, around screws and bolts. Cupboard door latches will seize or break, bolts on the engine will be rusted solid, screw heads will break off when you try yo unscrew them, mould will form in places you can't reach to clean and will release toxic spores which constantly colonize other areas with mould.

As a minimum I would say the boat should have been filled to the same level with fresh water immediately after the salt water was drained, then most of the salt will have soaked out.