Boat Swamped - Should I walk away from the purchase?

[sainted]

Regex:

I am the owner of a swamped boat. In my case a leaking shaft log combined with a plugged bilge pump filter allowed water to flood to the base of my settees. That was over the batteries, engine starter, a big chunk of the vessels wiring, etc. My boat was pumped out and hauled immediately. The yard washed the interior with salt away. I rewired the boat completely (I'm an electrician: my insurance company paid for it), so its better than new. There has been no long term damage to the structure of the vessel. The wood in the bulkheads is all fine. I do occasionally find evidence of the swamping: silt in a out-of-the-way location, for example. But on the whole, everything is fine.

If you like the Bene, have her surveyed (get a good one, not the one the broker recommends), use whatever you learn to make a decision or negotiate a lower price, and enjoy!

[Tricolor]

This is about the OP and not about the boat. It's a problem between his ears. Forget this boat and find one that not keeps you awake at night.

[Vladis]

Hello,

I bought my Oceanis 40 new and hit aground when it was 1 year old. No water in though. The insurance company made a complete report how the repair should be made including the whole reconstruction of the inner counter mould. The reconstructed counter mould is much more solid than the original one. As they told me after the repair - now you can hit a whale without problem. And I believe so.

Concerning your case, it is a question of the confidence on the people that made the repair. There is no reason why a repair should not be as good as as something that is old and has never repaired!

Regards, Luis

[carlheintz]

Here's my 2 cents.... have it surveyed. Don't worry if the survey comes back clean. As to the issue that boatman61 raises, it's a real issue, but easily resolved with liquid epoxy injections.

Every boat has issues, even the new ones. Every boat has problems, even (maybe especially) the new ones. You have a reputable yard that rebuilt the boat. You will take her on a sea trial and I would take a very experienced sailor with me to be sure that there aren't any wicky-wacky performance issues associated with the rebuild. ( strange weather helm issues, strange motor vibrations, miscellaneous annoying and irritating issues, etc) Don't just take her out, up to the Venice pier and back. Sail her up to Santa Monica, take her way out, and down past Palos Verdes, into the channel and at all points of sail. Listen, feel, intuit. She'll tell you if she's a good boat with a bad experience, or a bad boat. You will know. Your expert sailor friend will know.

P.S take her out on a windy day, not one of those 10 - 12 knot easy sail days. You want her to be under some stress and let her strut her stuff.

[Sailorman Ed]

Wait, the boat went aground? I do not know of anyone who has never run aground. And I do not know in CA but I don't think most states legally require you to disclose past history of boat repairs, especially if it was professionally completed. I think they were upfront to even tell you that much. And it was 9+ years ago, any real problems should be spotted in subsequent surveys, I am sure the insurance co would have required one after the work. Ask for the repaired survey. If you tell the surveyor of the prior issues and repair, he can focus on that. It sounds like the boat is better than new. 20 or 30% savings over a comparable boat seems like a pretty good deal.

[regex]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Swamped is a big wave going down an open companionway. Sunk is water coming from underneath, maybe permeating bulkheads, stopping the engine, and immersing wiring in salt water.

Ok, I will stop this argument here. Fair enough, but that has been discussed. Let's agree that it was partially sunk, the entire boat did not go down, it was aft only up to what it looks like is the beam. Partially sunk.

[regex]

Originally Posted by Tricolor

This is about the OP and not about the boat. It's a problem between his ears. Forget this boat and find one that not keeps you awake at night.

Haha... thanks for entertaining me. I was waiting for the first unhelpful troll response, you win. Basically, you're saying anytime there is a serious problem with a boat, you walk away. That is a safe strategy. I am pretty handy and I expect any used boat to have problems.

This OP is listening, digesting constructive feedback and has YET to make a decision on the path forward. Back to the bridge troll, I am not taking the bait.

[regex]

Originally Posted by Sailorman Ed

Wait, the boat went aground? I do not know of anyone who has never run aground. And I do not know in CA but I don't think most states legally require you to disclose past history of boat repairs, especially if it was professionally completed. I think they were upfront to even tell you that much. And it was 9+ years ago, any real problems should be spotted in subsequent surveys, I am sure the insurance co would have required one after the work. Ask for the repaired survey. If you tell the surveyor of the prior issues and repair, he can focus on that. It sounds like the boat is better than new. 20 or 30% savings over a comparable boat seems like a pretty good deal.

I agree with your sentiments, a few corrections:

• Yes, in CA you are required to disclose any reason you have to use an emergency tow and haul out worth more than $500.
• It was 3 years ago (technically, 2 years 10 months) so not 9, but your comment is accurate, yearly survey should have picked up on things.
• I have the detailed invoice and of course, will have a thorough survey done.

Agreed with the rest and thanks for your comments, I think it is a good deal.

[regex]

Originally Posted by carlheintz

Here's my 2 cents.... have it surveyed. Don't worry if the survey comes back clean. As to the issue that boatman61 raises, it's a real issue, but easily resolved with liquid epoxy injections.

Every boat has issues, even the new ones. Every boat has problems, even (maybe especially) the new ones. You have a reputable yard that rebuilt the boat. You will take her on a sea trial and I would take a very experienced sailor with me to be sure that there aren't any wicky-wacky performance issues associated with the rebuild. ( strange weather helm issues, strange motor vibrations, miscellaneous annoying and irritating issues, etc) Don't just take her out, up to the Venice pier and back. Sail her up to Santa Monica, take her way out, and down past Palos Verdes, into the channel and at all points of sail. Listen, feel, intuit. She'll tell you if she's a good boat with a bad experience, or a bad boat. You will know. Your expert sailor friend will know.

P.S take her out on a windy day, not one of those 10 - 12 knot easy sail days. You want her to be under some stress and let her strut her stuff.

Very helpful, are you volunteering? I have a few friends that are very salty, great idea to take them and have them provide constructive criticisms. I also agree with the sentiment, perfection is the pursuit of the inexperienced. I don't want perfect or I wouldn't be buying a boat. I want a very good vessel that will tell me when she is unhappy so I can work on the problem. There are parallels to marriage in that statement.

Thanks for your comments. Appreciated.

[Gaia]

Much well thought out stuff here in this interesting post. CFcomes through again.I am on the side of those suggesting a good survey and renegotiation.

Tough to live with a love lost due to 'loving too slow

Jim

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by regex

Ya, I hear you. But we would also be out of our price range for this kind of boat and would have to go older. So, then we are dealing with more wear/tear which could be pretty costly too right? It's a tough choice.

You forgot "go smaller." You don't need 40 feet. If up-keep worries you, smaller will be more manageable. Not too many years ago, 40' was considered huge. Size creep, like houses.


I had a bigger boat, paid for and not old, and down sized because I wanted smaller.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

I'd suggest you get a surveyor that knows and uses a FLIR thermal camera. It's one of the best ways I've seen to detect a bonding issue where the grid liner separated from the hull. If there was keel delamination around the hull from this collision, a failure of the hull liner wouldn't be out of the question.

Was a surveyor involved with the repair? Did the yard contract out the repairs or do they do all the work in house?

Matt

I was profoundly affected by reading of what happened to the Cheeky Rafiki. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ic-126406.html For that reason, my first reaction was to advise you walk away, because that is the simplest way to avoid having the keel fall off, an experience I do not wish to have. (Although, one CF member I know did have a keel fall off, and sailed the boat safely back to port--Chuck Hawley-- a very interesting story it is that he has to tell.)

So, this boils down mostly to your confidence in the repair that was made, whether or not it is complete enough to have left the boat in a sound condition. The quote above gives you one indication of an independent way to confirm what the repair folks told you. Fwiw, I do not believe that injecting liquid epoxy into rotting plywood bulkheads would be a satisfactory repair, but I might be wrong about that.

So, I'd say, go ahead, but with caution. Do listen to your gut, and if it starts sending you warning signals, then abort the mission. In truth, there are many Benes, in Calif. that have not had water ingress. I would also say, encourage your good lady to talk with the surveyor, as well. If she is not happy, then you might want to find another boat. Best to find out at the get-go, not down the road.

Ann

[roland stockham]

To my mind the important thing is the time. Yes the boat flooded but was immediately towed to a boat yard and presumably de-watered immediately then probably lifted out. Remedial treatment then started.

Yes seawater is corrosive stuff but the process takes time. If it is well repaired and has not had a problem since then you simply need to think about resale value and whether you are going to keep having this hanging around in the back of your mind as a worry.

Price paid for a boat is always a 'negotiation'. What are you prepared to pay, what will the seller take? Also are you looking at an 'investment' you will want to resell in a few years or a boat you will likely keep for 10yrs+. In the latter case resale value is more about how you maintained her than her current history

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by regex

Haha... thanks for entertaining me. I was waiting for the first unhelpful troll response, you win. Basically, you're saying anytime there is a serious problem with a boat, you walk away. That is a safe strategy. I am pretty handy and I expect any used boat to have problems.

This OP is listening, digesting constructive feedback and has YET to make a decision on the path forward. Back to the bridge troll, I am not taking the bait.

I am 100% serious and not trolling. This boat has had a costly repair done by a respected yard.. if people are interrested in a repaired boat, then let it have surveyed to check the quality of the repair and base your max. price on the outcome of this survey. All this is not happening, but you look for advice on a forum.

Just my opinion after being 30+ years a marine engineer.

Find an other boat and sleep again at night...!!

[a64pilot]

If your going to walk from all boats that disclose a previous repair, that means your going to be looking at a lot more that don’t disclose.
Don’t worry so much about what is in the book, worry about what isn’t.

Ann, while I don’t know much about that incident, I believe the damage was known about, both by the crew and it’s owner. I believe there was and had been leaks into the bilge. I’m sure neither thought it would fail though?

Epoxy injection into rotten wood is like sawdust in a worn out rear end, it’s more coverup than repair.
It came I assume from repairs to dis bonded honeycomb on aircraft, that is how a repair is done to that material.