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SuW · 24-11-2021, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

please show me when i have critiqued a members boat here.

lol...you called me mean-spirited, you naughty boy!

I presume you thought that the person posting the boat that I critiqued was posting his own boat, which it clearly wasn't.

But I forgave you

SuW · 24-11-2021, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptWho

There's something about the aesthetics of the stern of certain '80s boats that I really don't like. What do they even call a swept stern like this? In later boats that kept this design, they carved that space out and made a sugar-scoop. Looking at this Morgan, you have about 3' of unusable space that just adds to your dockage fees. It would also be a real pain to effectively attach something like a windvane, swim platform or davits and most of it is out of the water so it really doesn't add much to your LWL. I'm still drinking my coffee so maybe I'm totally off-base here, but I'd really like seeing more of a vertical stern that actually adds some storage or cockpit space.

Personally, I agree.

The thing about those styles of boats is that, when heeled, they are meant to have a longer waterline and thus go faster. A bit like fins on a car driving around a city, imo. Mostly it's kind of useless.

Similarly with bowsprits. In theory you can carry more sail, bigger jib, more than one jib sail perhaps, and get more speed.

It depends on what you want in a boat. Is is a racing machine, or a cottage on the water, transportation, or a home and so on.

**Don C L** · 24-11-2021, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morequestions

Did I see this on here somewhere? No matter
1976 Downeaster Sailboat 32 FT - $11,000 (Pensacola)

Google the name, the couple had a blog for sometime, did a lot of cruising around N.E. and Canada. The PHRF ratings on these are about the same as the Westsail 32.
One reviewer who owned both boats over the years says this one doesn't hobbyhorse like his Westsail does. Anyway for the price it might be worth a real look.

Is there a link?

I used to sail a Downeaster 38 and I liked it, it sailed well though it was not a high performance boat. Though I have not sailed the 32 I would say this one is a good choice and not a bad price for a good all around boat that is well built, and fairly roomy, if it is in good condition, and worth a look.

Morequestions · 24-11-2021, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don C L

Is there a link?

I used to sail a Downeaster 38 and I liked it, it sailed well though it was not a high performance boat. Though I have not sailed the 32 I would say this one is a good choice and not a bad price for a good all around boat that is well built, and fairly roomy, if it is in good condition, and worth a look.

https://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa...410928898.html

Yes it is worth looking into. If I were in the market right now I would be on the phone with the owners. Hope someone can enjoy it, check out their blog they may have some history written on there. Let us know what you think if you have a look. If they would like to trade for a 25 ft Safari diesel motor home with about 70K miles on it let me know Ha

Celestialsailor · 24-11-2021, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuW

lol...you called me mean-spirited, you naughty boy!

I presume you thought that the person posting the boat that I critiqued was posting his own boat, which it clearly wasn't.

But I forgave you

My bad...but still I would not critique someones boat even if it was molded cow dung...

SuW · 24-11-2021, 18:03

Critique of boats is what this thread is about, according to the originator.

If someone posts their own boat here, they should be prepared for forthright opinions.

SuW · 24-11-2021, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morequestions

https://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa...410928898.html

Yes it is worth looking into. If I were in the market right now I would be on the phone with the owners. Hope someone can enjoy it, check out their blog they may have some history written on there. Let us know what you think if you have a look. If they would like to trade for a 25 ft Safari diesel motor home with about 70K miles on it let me know Ha

The boat looks OK for its age, I'd say.

I like the Nature's Head composting toilet (we have one). These are indestructible.

The boat will need new cushions for sleeping, imo. And probably in the saloon too - those look pretty tired.

It's been repowered, which is good. Cutter rigged, which I like for flexible sail plan. Furler on the yankee. At least one ST winch. Can't really see the anchor or if there's a windlass. I like that the chainplates are fastened to the hull.

I don't much like the very large fixed "windows" - at the least they need re-bedding to repair the obvious leaks, they may need replacing. The wooden hatches too, probably.

External woodwork needs refinishing, interior would look much better if that was done too. There's probably a lot of leak-chasing to be done, too!

With a bit of work this could be a good coastal cruiser, certainly a good boat for a small family. Lots of storage for a small boat (full keel, heavyish displacement).

kristjan · 25-11-2021, 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

please show me when i have critiqued a members boat here.

#3023,
But not sure it’s another members boat.

However, this page is about critique the feasibility and value of projects. It doesn’t bother me, what I don’t get it why you admonish someone for unsolicited opinion (which I didn’t read anything negate in it) when you did the same.
I feel both contributions were appropriate.

Celestialsailor · 25-11-2021, 13:27

#3023

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I had a friend look at this for me when he drove back from Seattle, south and stopped in and took a lot of pictures. I have restored many boats with varying degrees of need. My friend know what kind of project is acceptable and not. He took some pictures and told me I should pass on this one.

The ad now is a lot more forthcoming with information to it's problems than when I asked about it.

On these boats the cabin sides on the inside are painted ply. The decks are cored with ply and although f/g decks on the outside, the ply core is not totally encapsulated on the inside. A leaky port had rotted out the cabinside and deck core.

There had been improvements to the boat over time such as a new spar. and some other upgrades. I emailed Robert Perry as to the quality of the Moa Ta compared to the Unions. He did not think they were a good. Apparently an employee of Union spun off and built a few boats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristjan

You literally do the same thing

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristjan

#3023,
But not sure it’s another members boat.

However, this page is about critique the feasibility and value of projects. It doesn’t bother me, what I don’t get it why you admonish someone for unsolicited opinion (which I didn’t read anything negate in it) when you did the same.
I feel both contributions were appropriate.

Well for everyone to see here is how your conversation with me has transpired. I was sharing about a boat which I was thinking of purchasing. It had major problems. There was nothing mean spirited about it. Just sharing what was found and with a picture to show members what is out there. I did not buy the boat for obvious reasons.
And yes, it was not a members vessel. Your post is nothing more than a character assassination.

SuW · 25-11-2021, 14:01

Celestialsailor made a mistake - he thought paisan* was posting his own boat (about which I commented).

Can we all just let it drop? Any value is this thread is about boats not personal stuff.

I see kristjan has a large Colvin boat. Interesting, we used to own a Gazelle. Do you have any comments about them, kristjan?

*Edit: sorry, it was jeanathon.

kristjan · 25-11-2021, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuW

Celestialsailor made a mistake - he thought paisan* was posting his own boat (about which I commented).

Can we all just let it drop? Any value is this thread is about boats not personal stuff.

I see kristjan has a large Colvin boat. Interesting, we used to own a Gazelle. Do you have any comments about them, kristjan?

*Edit: sorry, it was jeanathon.

Well, the Doxy we have is a few feet longer than the stock 38’ design. It is 41. With a few other differences. I actually bought if off a member of this forum, so I think many photos are able to be found. Ours was built by two full time boat builders, who also spent time with Tom Colvin building boats in Florida. This variant on the design was a collaboration between the three men. The easiest way to describe our Doxy is that it is a heavy displacement version of a Gazelle with a schooner rig. She’s slow to accelerate, holds course well, handles weather far better than expected and can carry a lot of weight easily.

The name before us was ParaDoxy, since it was a variant, however after 1991 Mr. Colvin offered this design as the design for sale.

It’s a solid cruiser good for a family that can live in a close space, very full size galley, but does suffer going upwind or in very light air. Sometimes I’ve wished for a schooner rig gazelle, but I’d be loath to give up cargo carrying capacity and great deck space.

The crown is done perfectly, always walking on level deck,
when heeled. Though it look exaggerated next to a Benetrau. I have room for a few pallets on the bridge deck, and room for barrels or boxes up the side decks. It might not have a cockpit fo entertaining but I can fit a dining set under the mainboom on the bridge deck.
I’ve never sailed a junk, and don’t think I really want to.
Versus your Gazelle, our aft deck is raised 6”, and the draft is 4’6”, so standing room in aft, and not a crawl to pass through. I think beam is similar, but the ‘shoulders’ of the Doxy make for a less fine entry, a bit of a sailing snowblower. Not sure how your interior was, but under our side decks is mostly tankage and storage, which also acts as an insulating space in winter. Does make for a skinny inside.

It carries enough diesel to leave the stove on for five months, and enough solar and inverter to use my electric kettle, and power tools. Two little 110v welding machines for 5/16 steel with which I’ve done some side-jobs and little projects onboard of the inverter also.
Plan on replacing the MD17C with a beta 35 spring coming.

And Celestialsailor is right, the bowsprit is a waste of money in a marina, but very necessary when out sailing. It carries an asymmetric very nicely.
Kris

SuW · 26-11-2021, 10:15

Hi Kris,

Interesting post about the Doxy. I have emailed our boatyard buddy who owns a Colvin Aderyn Mor called Taio. He knows your boat and had sailed on her. He has just converted his boat from gaff-rigged to junk-rigged and took her out for her shakedown voyage this summer. It went well.

(If you're interested, he has a suit of sails that might be usable on your boat. PM me.)

The Gazelle by contrast is much lighter displacement than the Doxy. Almost every Gazelle that we have encountered had been modified by the builder in various ways. However, it wasn't designed to even have an engine, so Tom Colvin was somewhat struggling against the tide in making a beautiful cargo vessel. He did modify the design a few times. We met him in the late 90s when he was retired to Florida. Very nice man, very smart. He was building a steel power boat even then!

We bought our Gazelle from the amateur builder who had brought forward the aft deck by a frame and had, like yours, raised the aft deck by 6 inches. It made a really nice high aft cabin, with, as you describe a great place for entertaining on the back deck. Colvin's design had a semi-circular wooden bench all around the aft rail.

Our boat had a heavier engine (2 cyl Sabb instead of 1 cyl) and a heavier wooden roof than specified, so although it was designed to be 3'10" draft it was more like 4'4".

The boat sailed great on a beam reach (as do all boats!), junk-rigged schooner with a jib on the bowsprit. The jib did help a bit when going to windward. We rarely used all the mainsail (it was huge) usually the foresail and a reefed main was all we needed.

A good boat in all, very nice liveaboard for a couple. We enjoyed her. We went South for several years. However the builder had made too many compromises when finishing and when living aboard for 10 years, and we couldn't keep up with the maintenance. That and certain life changes mean we're happy with a smaller, more conventional boat! We did learn a lot about all kinds of boat construction and maintenance, which has been useful.

As with all boats, it's about the provenance, I suppose. If it was well-designed, well-built and well-maintained, it'll be all good!

Sue.

Morequestions · 26-11-2021, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuW

The boat looks OK for its age, I'd say.

I like the Nature's Head composting toilet (we have one). These are indestructible.

The boat will need new cushions for sleeping, imo. And probably in the saloon too - those look pretty tired.

It's been repowered, which is good. Cutter rigged, which I like for flexible sail plan. Furler on the yankee. At least one ST winch. Can't really see the anchor or if there's a windlass. I like that the chainplates are fastened to the hull.

I don't much like the very large fixed "windows" - at the least they need re-bedding to repair the obvious leaks, they may need replacing. The wooden hatches too, probably.

External woodwork needs refinishing, interior would look much better if that was done too. There's probably a lot of leak-chasing to be done, too!

With a bit of work this could be a good coastal cruiser, certainly a good boat for a small family. Lots of storage for a small boat (full keel, heavyish displacement).

I think the cabin trunk and port lights are not very attractive. Would look better with smaller and more numerous round opening ports. But for $11K I seen worse. Seen a decent looking Allied Seawind 30 selling for 15K. Don't know it would be any better really. This has more room and sails a bit faster. Not everyone's cup of tea, like the Westsail isn't everyone's ideal.
I think when actively looking to buy, you would consider a variety of boats seeing how much you'll get for the buck. Something like this boat will probably not meet your needs of a weekend bay sailing boat like say a Hunter or Catalina would, but if you wanted to go to the Caribbean or further it might be the better choice. Florida does have a lot of no wind days so I can see why the owners want to keep their other boat.

SuW · 26-11-2021, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morequestions

I think the cabin trunk and port lights are not very attractive. Would look better with smaller and more numerous round opening ports....

Yes, we made ports smaller in our fibreglass boat...it was quite a bit of work (although the result is great).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morequestions

I think when actively looking to buy, you would consider a variety of boats seeing how much you'll get for the buck. Something like this boat will probably not meet your needs of a weekend bay sailing boat like say a Hunter or Catalina would, but if you wanted to go to the Caribbean or further it might be the better choice. Florida does have a lot of no wind days so I can see why the owners want to keep their other boat.

Sensible advice. Lots of possible solutions and a variety of compromises. An old man we knew used to say, "A boat's a tool, laddie!"