Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

Watkins 36 Center Cockpit

Year = 1981
Asking Price = $29,900. (New listing today)
Location = Treasure Island FL
1981 Watkins Center Cockpit Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Has anyone taken a look at this boat yet? This seems to meet a lot of the "tick boxes" i have and the pricepoint.

[old frog]

The disparity of the original build quality, which far out weighs the price disparity, of the boats posted in this thread is truly amazing.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by old frog

The disparity of the original build quality, which far out weighs the price disparity, of the boats posted in this thread is truly amazing.

The last 2 boats sure bring that point home. The Rhodes is a great boat. The Watkins, not so much.

[Bleemus]

The Rhodes, while very pretty at anchor, is an old CCA design and prone to all of that classes shortcomings. I will pass on it.

[krisb007]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

The Rhodes, while very pretty at anchor, is an old CCA design and prone to all of that classes shortcomings. I will pass on it.

I would be interested in hearing what those are in your opinion. Trying to learn more about those boats as I am a little smitten with them.

[Bleemus]

Originally Posted by krisb007

I would be interested in hearing what those are in your opinion. Trying to learn more about those boats as I am a little smitten with them.

Full keel with a a forward angled rudder attached. Notoriously bad for tracking and lack of helm response. Huge overhangs to give it an advantage of the waterline rule when the wind was blowing but dog slow when it wasnt. Narrow and wildly unstable downwind. It was a beautiful time for boat design if you didnt have to sail them. Great mooring jewelry.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by krisb007

I would be interested in hearing what those are in your opinion. Trying to learn more about those boats as I am a little smitten with them.

As someone who also is smitten by those designs, I will give what I believe are considered the shortcomings of CCA boats.
1. Long deck, short waterline, but there is a reason for that: CCA rules penalized waterline length, so as she heels the waterline stretches out, and she speeds up.
2. The tendency to hobby-horse. But this is a part of waterline compared to length overall and if they are loaded heavily bow and stern, then of course, they can hobby-horse.
3. If you can't load up the bow and stern, and they are so skinny, where are you going to put stuff? It is true, CCA boats are not high volume cruisers, you have to understand that. If you want more volume, look elsewhere.
4.A lot of length for not much boat. Again, the boats are sleek, skinny, deep hulls, but this was a proven sea-worthy, and sea-kindly, and high performance, design before CCA rules. They can be quite fast considering their displacement and they can point to weather well, and do it comfortably. (Granted, I will get outpointed by a modern fin keel, but everything has its trade-offs.) Look to Gloucester schooners and early designs like "Dorade" and "Stormy Weather." "Dorade" is famous for shaking up the racing community in the 30s with her wins.

Now I am sure there are many folks who will look at that list and find in it confirmation that the old styles are hopelessly flawed. But I bet they haven't sailed one.

In my own case, granted a smaller one, the S&S CCA design Columbia 29, yes, she is tender. But once she is heeled over to 20-25 degrees of so she settles in to a very stable and comfortable motion, especially upwind. You can get stability from a beamy hull or from primarily keel ballast, and the two hulls respond differently in ways that are a little hard to see on a graph. Yes. If my main is down, my skinny hull will rock and roll. But so what? Put the main back up, say, while motoring, and she settles down. The implication is that she might more easily capsize, but paradoxically perhaps, these hulls do not care at all to get or stay inverted... and that you CAN see in the graphs.

Now as for construction: very thick layers of hand laid-up roving, a molded in long keel, a protected rudder... I routinely sail through kelp beds and lobster and crab pots' lines. I snag nothing and damage nothing.

Keep digging Kris, I think you'll appreciate the designs for even more than their outward beauty.
About Dorade | Dorade: The History of an Ocean Racing Yacht by Douglas D. Adkins
The Pearson Rhodes 41 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org

check the refit of one here to see how she's built too:
Cruisers & Sailing Forums - refits of note

edit: after reading Bleemus, I can say that yes, downwind can be a challenge. But "wildly unstable?" I can't agree with that. I can balance mine nicely by being sure that I have very little main up, or none, if it's blowing and seas are steep. Bad at tracking? I haven't found that. Unresponsive helm? Well compared to what, a spade rudder? Once you learn the quirks, you can get around these features. Yes, I do need to be sure I have a certain flow over the hull and rudder if I am planning to come about. Every hull has its trade-offs.

[Scout 30]

The Rhodes 41 is designed to a purpose which was offshore racing under the Cruising Club of America rules. They were not built to be floating condos that appeal to wives that don't really like sailing. Some of my all time favorites came from the CCA rules of this era including the Block Island 40, the Bermuda 40 & the Concordia Yawl.

[krisb007]

Originally Posted by Don C L

As someone who also is smitten by those designs, I will give what I believe are considered the shortcomings of CCA boats.
1. Long deck, short waterline, but there is a reason for that: CCA rules penalized waterline length, so as she heels the waterline stretches out, and she speeds up.
2. The tendency to hobby-horse. But this is a part of waterline compared to length overall and if they are loaded heavily bow and stern, then of course, they can hobby-horse.
3. If you can't load up the bow and stern, and they are so skinny, where are you going to put stuff? It is true, CCA boats are not high volume cruisers, you have to understand that. If you want more volume, look elsewhere.
4.A lot of length for not much boat. Again, the boats are sleek, skinny, deep hulls, but this was a proven sea-worthy, and sea-kindly, and high performance, design before CCA rules. They can be quite fast considering their displacement and they can point to weather well, and do it comfortably. (Granted, I will get outpointed by a modern fin keel, but everything has its trade-offs.) Look to Gloucester schooners and early designs like "Dorade" and "Stormy Weather." "Dorade" is famous for shaking up the racing community in the 30s with her wins.

Now I am sure there are many folks who will look at that list and find in it confirmation that the old styles are hopelessly flawed. But I bet they haven't sailed one.

In my own case, granted a smaller one, the S&S CCA design Columbia 29, yes, she is tender. But once she is heeled over to 20-25 degrees of so she settles in to a very stable and comfortable motion, especially upwind. You can get stability from a beamy hull or from primarily keel ballast, and the two hulls respond differently in ways that are a little hard to see on a graph. Yes. If my main is down, my skinny hull will rock and roll. But so what? Put the main back up, say, while motoring, and she settles down. The implication is that she might more easily capsize, but paradoxically perhaps, these hulls do not care at all to get or stay inverted... and that you CAN see in the graphs.

Now as for construction: very thick layers of hand laid-up roving, a molded in long keel, a protected rudder... I routinely sail through kelp beds and lobster and crab pots' lines. I snag nothing and damage nothing.

Keep digging Kris, I think you'll appreciate the designs for even more than their outward beauty.
About Dorade | Dorade: The History of an Ocean Racing Yacht by Douglas D. Adkins
The Pearson Rhodes 41 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org

check the refit of one here to see how she's built too:
Cruisers & Sailing Forums - refits of note

edit: after reading Bleemus, I can say that yes, downwind can be a challenge. But "wildly unstable?" I can't agree with that. I can balance mine nicely by being sure that I have very little main up, or none, if it's blowing and seas are steep. Bad at tracking? I haven't found that. Unresponsive helm? Well compared to what, a spade rudder? Once you learn the quirks, you can get around these features. Yes, I do need to be sure I have a certain flow over the hull and rudder if I am planning to come about. Every hull has its trade-offs.

I have already read all of the articles you attached. Those are really what attracted me to the boat. When I was young I sailed with my fathers friend often on a smaller boat of the same design (CCA compliant from the early 60's). It was too long ago to remember what type. The part I loved about sailing on his boat was the steep heel angle and how smooth it sailed when it was over at around 20%. I recently went on a friends newer designed boat (80's) and its stability actually kind of made the ride boring to me. As far as space inside I am a minimalist and my future plans are solo so I think this style of boat is still on my short list.

Plus it's just so damn sexy looking to me.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by krisb007

I have already read all of the articles you attached. Those are really what attracted me to the boat. When I was young I sailed with my fathers friend often on a smaller boat of the same design (CCA compliant from the early 60's). It was too long ago to remember what type. The part I loved about sailing on his boat was the steep heel angle and how smooth it sailed when it was over at around 20%. I recently went on a friends newer designed boat (80's) and its stability actually kind of made the ride boring to me. As far as space inside I am a minimalist and my future plans are solo so I think this style of boat is still on my short list.

Plus it's just so damn sexy looking to me.

Different strokes for different folks.

Many years ago there was a Bounty in the slip across from my boat. I walked by it everyday for 10 years and it always still drew my eye.....

[UNCIVILIZED]

On the CCA designs, do I recall them as having a penchant for rolling. Particularly at anchor?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

On the CCA designs, do I recall them as having a penchant for rolling. Particularly at anchor?

I use a flopper-stopper... no problems for me

[Bleemus]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

On the CCA designs, do I recall them as having a penchant for rolling. Particularly at anchor?

Hanging out on a Chris Craft Apache after racing was a challenge keeping thecocktails from spilling! 😂

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

Hanging out on a Chris Craft Apache after racing was a challenge keeping thecocktails from spilling! 😂

Are you sure that spillage was the result of the Apache's gentle motion and not the inebriation that resulted from winning so handily??

[Bleemus]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Are you sure that spillage was the result of the Apache's gentle motion and not the inebriation that resulted from winning so handily??

Hmmm,. My memory is a bit foggy but you may be right!