Bristol 51.1 - What do I need to know?

[Tspringer]

I have a deposit on a 1987 Bristol 51.1 and will be getting a survey done this coming Monday and Tuesday. If all goes well, hope to complete the purchase quickly and sail her south from the Chesapeake to Keys with stops along the way.

I have used Google and forum searches and joined the Bristol owners FB pages but am still trying to learn as much about these boats as I can. Any hands on experience or knowledge of constructions methods and/or quality issues is greatly appreciated!

What issues should I request the surveyor pay particular attention too? Any known problems or issues with these boats? I really love the layout and everything about the boat (well, except the in-mast furling but I can live with it) but I also recognize that I don't know what I don't know.

Thanks for the help!

Terry

[Orion Jim]

A systems and machinery survey in addition to a hull survey would be a wise investment. If the systems have not been regularly maintained and upgraded you could be on the brink of spending tens of thousands to make up for the sins of the past owners.
Lovely boat, be very meticulous and be present with your choice of surveyors. Leave no stone unturned.

[PolarisOne]

Just to emphasize what Orion Jim said..... Get it thoroughly checked out.
Additionally, Water and fuel tanks will have to be replaced eventually if original (very expensive). Teak decks are nice but I would not want to pay for replacement. Westerbeke W100 is an old discontinued engine. I had the W70 and some parts are just not available and those that are very expensive. I just repowered my boat because of that. Centerboard pennant and pivot bearing require replacing periodically.

Bristols are overbuilt and usually dont have any problems with hull or deck issues. I love mine.

John
Bristol 47.7 Orion

[Tspringer]

Yes - I am having a thorough survey done in addition to my own inspections. I know more about diesel engines, boat maintenance and complex boat repairs than any sane man would deliberately set out to learn - knowledge gained the old fashioned way. Aka - the painful way.

John - interesting and helpful note on the Westerbeke being discontinued and parts unavailable. Is this parts scenario really to the point of minor break downs requiring engine replacement? I will definitely do some research on that.

The teak decks I am told are in very good shape and they look good in the photos but I will be looking very close at that. Should the teak need replacement - now or at any point in the future - my plan would be to strip it all off, glass the deck and put down molded nonskid. Unfortunately, I've done such work before and know how to do it. What a nasty job.

I have never had a centerboard boat before. Any tips on operating it or sailing with it? Use to balance the helm? I have also never owned a furling main mast and that scares me a bit.

The boat I am looking at got all new fuel tanks 5 years ago and I am pretty sure water tanks as well within the previous 7-8 years. Also new bottom job and hull paint and tons of other stuff - it appears the owners have put a lot of effort and love into maintenance but I'll know for sure next week.

Any additional information on Bristol specific issues and things to look for is appreciated.


Terry

[PolarisOne]

Terry,

The centerboard is very nice to have, especially in skinny water places like the Bahamas. Bristols sail pretty well upwind with the board up..... but you do notice the improvement with the board down in pointing of around 5-10 degrees higher and the boat powers up in less wind. Make sure you remove the side load when you lower or raise the centerboard, less stress on the system.

I have used the Hood mainsail fuller for a while now.... My mainsail has vertical battens and as long as you keep tension on the outhaul for the first third or half of the mainsail as it unrolls, wind pressure seems to be enough for the rest. Be careful with the furler switch. You don't want to jam the sail in the mast by holding down the switch for too long without tension on the outhaul. If you do jam it up (and you will), reverse the switch and re-roll up the sail, don't try and pull it out of the mast with the outhaul. Big debate about whether you should be head to wind before you unroll/roll in the main..... I believe in putting as little stress on these systems as possible so I do head into the wind before I unroll, furl or reef the main.

On engine parts issue, you could be lucky and Westerbeke could have the part you need or it takes 6 weeks to get or it just isn't made anymore. Accessories seem to be the items that need to be replaced so ask if your exhaust manifold and related parts, exhaust elbow and heat exchanger, fresh and raw water pump are available. The basic engine block has a great reputation but lots of W100 and W70 Westerbekes being retired lately.

-John

[sanibel sailor]

Hull on my 35.5 is molded in 2 halves. I have minor weeping just above stern tube. A nuisance but no structural issues. My chain plates were hidden behind joiner work and uninspectable. I've gotten to know my old W30 intimately. Figure out the base block and most parts are readily available. Marine specific parts might be obtained from discarded engines. I've stocked up on a few unique pieces.

[evbeck]

yes, make sure to check for original, steel fuel tanks laid next to fiberglass. If so, this is a challenging fix although most of the sole over the tanks comes up.
Beautiful boat, good luck.

[Hoodsail]

Cant speak to the westerbeke 100, but parts are readily available (through Boston distributor) for my 1978 W30. Although pricey...raw water pump $580. exhaust elbow (made out of plumbing fixtures) $350. Due to age of my diesel upon purchase (plus PO had no receipts), i had compression check & oil evaluation done. Oil evaluation was marginally helpful, but compression sold me that engine was strong.
Might give the fresh water lines a look...mine were original and needed replacing (used 1/2" pex) along with fresh water pump. not difficult just time consuming to do. Pulled chain plates (after purchase) and they looked brand new - so now have peace of mind. My centerboard requires about 45 cranks to lower/raise. I've noticed some improvement in upwind performance..Would recommend when boat is hauled to have surveyor lower/raise the board. Good luck with your survey - beautiful boat, hope she passes. thnks Dave

[goodnumbers64]

I owned a 45.5 (1980) for about ten years. Bristol’s are very well built and sail well. I looked at the listing I assume you are buying (Annapolis?) and that looks like a terrific boat.
On the centerboard there are likely 2 or 3 shelves and you need to check those as they do wear out. We found a problem when the painter was being replaced.
I really like the main curler except for the vibration and noise at the dock. When the wind is abaft the beam it sets up a flute. We had a “flute stopper “ that we put up at the dock. My trick for opening and closing was tp raise the boom when opening. That takes the weight and stress off the sail. I’d lower it when furling as that makes for a much tighter and smoother sail. Only once did I have a problem with the sail getting fouled in the mast. And that was before I learned to raise and lower the boom. It’s really great when you are finished sailing or want to reef and don’t have to go up on deck. It does affect the performance a bit. But if you’re a serious racer you wouldn’t be buying this boat.
Personally, I would not want the teak decks. I’d price in the the removal job you described.

[sanibel sailor]

My B35.5 is quite good on the wind. In admittedly not very competitive club racing, we are frequently first to weather mark. Board is critical. Replaced SS cable with 1/4" Dyneema, no problems, easy to freshen the nip, even in the water.

[Typhoon]

We looked at many Bristols before we bought our 45.5 . The larger ones are great boats but have teak decks that are screwed down. This is a very bad thing , a boat of that age with screwed down teak decks will most certinaly have water ingression into the core. Count on it . So if the deck needs replacement you are looking at a minimum of forty thousand and when you find out that the core is wet , double that !

Now for an old engine....... that has already been talked about.

Now for the tanks , make sure they have all been done , the were originally stainless and they are still there , they are at the end of there life. this is another very very large expense to put right .

If this is the boat on Yachtworld , the electronics look ancient ! They will need to be upgraded.

Also that boat has no propane system , it has an electric range , Another upgrade .

Now lets talk about refrigeration. While Bristols are spectacular boats the are 30 plus years old . They did a fine job on the fridge and freezer but the insulation has an R value of nothing !! I mean nothing! Its 30 years old . I know because I just did this 4 years ago . If you want an efficient system you will have to take out those lovely stainless liners and re-insulate the boxes build new liners and lids .

Now lets talk dollars and cents . If you were to commission a custom yacht built like that Bristol you are looking at well north of 1.5 million .

If you buy the 1987 and put in around 150 thousand for the refit you would have a spectacular yacht that take you any where in style and comfort for much less.

This is just my opinion from my experience and Bristol affectionado.

It all depends on what you want out of your boat , some people will just leave it the way it is and sail it .

Theres a Bristol 45.5 with all this done already on yachtworld for the same money

Send me a PM if you want any other information

Regards John.

[Exile]

I can echo the comments from John & others about the high build quality & integrity of the Bristol's. I had to have an out-of-water survey done a couple of years ago and the surveyor commented that it had one of the driest hulls & decks of any used boat he had ever inspected. Pretty impressive after 30 years!

In the past 11 years of ownership I have had my share of expensive refits, of course. But many of the older, and in some cases original components have continued to perform well. The most pleasant surprise was discovering post-purchase that her sailing performance well exceeded expectations given her weight & modified full keel. Maybe someone else can confirm, but I had heard that many were built to compete in the offshore Bermuda races back in a time when seakindliness was a higher priority than outright speed. Even today, however, the rougher the conditions the more she seems to close the speed gap with lighter, longer-waterline modern cruisers. I believe the handicap on the 47.7 is 114 -- not bad for a 20T+ cruising boat!

It sounds like the OP may have some good news on the relative age of his fuel & water tanks. One of my fuel tanks had been replaced before I bought the boat, and I had to replace another. An add'l small one under the galley sole had already been abandoned. They were all aluminum (ugh), but the one I replaced I had custom fabbed out of fiberglass. My 3 water tanks are all SS (Monel possibly?), are probably original but holding up fine thus far (fingers crossed).

After unsuccessfully dealing with a weepy sheave box for years, along with a broken painter, I decided to abandon the centerboard and seal it up inside the keel. Unlike some others, I didn't notice that significant an advantage to the board. It's unballasted and is only a benefit with the wind forward of the beam. The main advantage, on my boat anyway, was it allowed me to fly more mainsail in heavier conditions without compromising the balance of the helm, and so some add'l speed (didn't notice improved pointing ability). The downside for me was the difficulty of dealing with maintenance & failures without hauling out, and the endless weeping of saltwater into the cabin. I haven't missed having it, and have noticed the boat stays much drier. I can always pretty easily restore it, although I'd probably want a better solution than the 3 underwater sheaves currently in place. Many other Bristol owners report no issues, however, so YMMV.

I've had to have my Hood electric furler rebuilt once, and I replace the ATF fluid inside the gearbox annually. The OP may want to check the condition of this fluid for any water intrusion. The furler has otherwise proven itself flawless. I find that about 20º off the wind works best for furling/unfurling, but have managed to also do it downwind so long as pressure is taken off the luff. In heavier conditions the unfooted mainsail provides limitless reefing, all the way down to trysail size & configuration if needed. I did dispense with the vertical battens early on and had the mainsail recut, after several riggers advised that the battens were hard on the furling system & made the sail more prone to jams. Again, YMMV.

One other item that may or may not be applicable to the OP is that my boat came to me without 12v refrigeration. Instead, it has an engine drive compressor and a (Seafrost) 110v system. Although the boat also has a 8kw genset, the 110 system seems to work best with shore power. This makes me more dependent on diesel when away from the dock than I'd prefer, but with large, separate fridge & freezer boxes (that are probably not well insulated after 30 years), I would likely have to install two separate 12v compressors to become less diesel-dependent. (Are you listening John?? ). In any event, something the OP may wish to check out in anticipating refit costs.

[Cheechako]

I see it has new tanks, try to verify that, but that is a great thing.

[Typhoon]

I echo all of Exiles comments.

Our last boat was a more modern long water line design with flat forward sections . Yes she was fast but not comfortable. When we first sailed a Bristol I was astounded how seakindly she was . What a Cadillac!

And slow? Not at all for her displacement. One thing when you get a boat with good weight to her she is not effected as much by what you are carrying . So load her up and she does not slow .

Our center board has giving us no trouble and if it did I would fix it. It really is one of my favorite features of the boat. I find a noticeable difference upwind , but I am a dinghy racer at heart.

And yes Exile , I am always watching .

Regards John

[Typhoon]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I see it has new tanks, try to verify that, but that is a great thing.

Make sure they were all done , this is a big thing .

Regards John