Broker and owner withhold information.

[Snore]

Are you morally and legally right? I think so.

Is it cost-efficient to take action? Likely not. This is the downside of shopping long distance. If you were there, you would have walked away. Hopefully, the surveyor stopped before he was done, and reduced his fee.

Going forward, it would be wise to have future boats “previewed” by someone local. Some delivery captains (cough cough) offer that service, or instruct the surveyor to call you if he finds a material defect.

[IslandHopper]

The OP didn't get the survey done he 'found' it......

Originally Posted by Flybird

During my research, I have found this survey report, that describes the damage on the boat:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/129d...PPgguV2U4jHPdk

....and as it's the OP's first post and hasn't been back, i'll take it all with a grain of salt.

[Sailmonkey]

Walk away and stop thinking about it. Not worth the time I’ve spent typing this!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Out of interest, is there a wrecking yard for all these written off boats ? Would love some front windows off a seawind 1260 and maybe an electric winch or two.......... for cheap ��

No idea what's going on in Oz but there's a number of stores in the US that sell used boat parts, some from wrecks and salvaged boats, some from owners that upgraded bits and sold the old stuff.

Usually just the high value things like winches, SS and bronze fittings, teak doors, electronics and such.

[piloto]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Rust is the poor man's loctite...... love it.


....................



Out of interest, is there a wrecking yard for all these written off boats ? Would love some front windows off a seawind 1260 and maybe an electric winch or two.......... for cheap






.

for your interest, just finished a few weeks of sailing through the usvi and bvi's and there are still many damaged boats in the yards and rafted up in the harbors. parts are everywhere and a robust salvaging group of harbor rats active. In the bvi's they're taking the damaged boats out 25 miles and scuttling them (word is without bothering to remove fuel or oil, etc.) and bringing in new for the charter ops. you just need to hang around long enough to get "the lay of the land" (or water) and you should be able to find whatever you'd like. some have been submerged, others just flipped and ended up on their backs ashore. Slowly things are regrouping.

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

I’m glad you didn’t use broker and ethical in the same sentence

While there are certainly some that fit this description there are the majority like in real estate that are just not very good and then there are those that are truly exceptional. It's just a matter of finding the right ones to work with.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

While there are certainly some that fit this description there are the majority like in real estate that are just not very good and then there are those that are truly exceptional. It's just a matter of finding the right ones to work with.

I call it the 80-10-10 rule of thumb and apply it to all whether plumber, broker or doctor.

80% mediocre - not averse to moderate thievery and prevarication (the average human)

10% exceptional - honest, reliable straight shooters

10% dangerous - goal in life to to take whatever they can get their hands on

[lvictorlucas]

Run, don't walk away!

[Flybird]

Thanks for all the comments. Here are som reactions to them:

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Scrap value only.

What would scrap value be for such a boat you think?

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

Tell Yacht World don't let the listing stay up, if you really want to be a busybody.

YachtWorld say the do not have a policy on the integrity of the information provided by brokers.

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Given the info on the survey, is it safe to conclude the boat was essentially written off? If it was written-off, isn't there an obligation for the seller to state that? or can that be omitted if the boat changes hands a couple of times?

"Written off", what does that mean precisely? And what consequenses does it have?

Originally Posted by hellosailor

As you don't go into the details of the boat's flag state, or the owner's citizenship/residence, and we can only guess "EasysaleUSA" might be a US company (or not even that)...

The boat might be governed by BVI laws, as it is located there and the sale presumably would be there. There is often NO requirement to disclose defects regarding the sale of boats. In the US, even the requirement to disclose known defects and health hazards in the sale of houses has been a new and varying one.

So there's probably nothing much you can do, except to forward copies of your emails (hopefully you did not conduct this discussion by telephone) to Yachtworld, and if they think a broker has been intentionally hiding known defects, they may bar them from using the service. Assuming you can supply damning proof.

I assumed the boat was registered in BVI, but I am asking the broker on this.
As mentioned above, YachtWorld say the do not have a policy on the integrity of the information provided by brokers.

Originally Posted by RaymondR

If you are determined to do something see if you can file a public interest case and ask for costs against them, they'll probably back off.

I do not know what a "public interest case" is, but I am not american and it sounds like something timeconsuming, and as I have not signed any contract, I suppose I will not have much luck.

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

The OP didn't get the survey done he 'found' it......
....and as it's the OP's first post and hasn't been back, i'll take it all with a grain of salt.

Do you have any reason to doubt the validity of the survey report? What are you insinuating?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Flybird

"Written off", what does that mean precisely? And what consequenses does it have?

"written-off" means that the boat's insurers have decided that the cost of repairing the boat exceeds its value before the damages. So the insurers take possession of the wreck and pay out the insured maximum to the owner. The boat is later sold for scrap or for a deep discount, and usually there's some indication that it was previously written off. You'd find out for sure if you tried to get an insurance quote.

Since the survey you posted estimated that the repairs would be ~$450k and the boat value was estimated at $440k... seems like it was written off.

[Flybird]

Ök, thanks for clearifying. Yes, It must be written off, as it was sold to the current owners on auction by the insurrance company.

What implications is there in that?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Flybird

Ök, thanks for clearifying. Yes, It must be written off, as it was sold to the current owners on auction by the insurrance company.

What implications [are] there in that?

• That it was pretty beat up. There's possibly more damage than found; they stopped counting when it was clear it would be written off.
• That anyone who wants to put it back in service will be spending north of $300k... unless they're pro aluminum welders with their own yard.
• That you may not be able to insure it again.

Any chance of finding what the current owner paid at auction?

[SVTwilight]

Run, don't walk away. It is a boat buyer's market. Be patient, buy a good one!

[hellosailor]

deluxe-
There are 62 "state" venues in the US, not just the 50 states. I make no attempt to track the real estate disclosure laws in all of them. Some have had the laws for a long time, others I have heard of just recently requiring or still debating them, or so I thought. And again, that's all only for real estate.
Of course, there's nothing to stop a buyer from insisting that the sales contract contains a full disclosure statement, and an honest seller should have no problem with that. Any competent lawyer (stop laughing, there might be one out there somewhere) at a contract closing should be asking for the same thing.

Lake-
Even in states that provide for salvage titles, insurers don't always bother with processing them. In theory if they total the boat, they take the title from you (you have to sign it over, they have to process it and file it) and then the "salvage" title haunts it forever. But sometimes they'll agree to sell it back to the owner, who thinks they can surely fix it up for less...and a busy insurer skips the paperwork because that can save them $100 and a couple of weeks to clear the case. And more time to assign the salvage title paperwork over to the salvage buyer, can't do that until the new title has arrived, could be another month delay. And I suspect that some states don't have salvage titles, the same way they miss flood and salvage titles on cars.
I'd heard that insurers had or were pooling to keep their own shared database to make sure they didn't have to depend on lax states for that, dunno for sure.

[Montanan]

There is a simple four letter word that explains this boat.

IRMA

The advertising begins with Before Irma and the rest of the story is self explanatory.

The deformation in the hull is very apparent.

If the before Irma photo was recent then it WAS once a nice boat. Can't say the same for its after storm condition and the price at $45,000 is an asking price, a bid price should likely be of the order of you pay me to dispose of the wreck. There may bits and parts worth salvaging but not something I would ever invest in restoring to shipshape.

Sad to see such destruction. I hope the owner had insurance that paid for its true value.