Buy a 1990s Swan or a Brand New (but Cheaper) Brand ?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sobriyah

Maybe its time I threw my two cents into this thread, as someone who bought a second hand Oyster and has lived aboard her for the last seven years. Before we bought her, having looked at many yachts, our final decision was between a new Moody 47 and a used Holman and Pye Oyster 485. Also considered used Rassys, Najads, Swans, but there were few for sale or above our price limit. What swung it was seeing a used Moody 46 at Swanwick, only a couple of years old, but falling apart. They are just not in the same league, and we don't see many in the Caribbean.

So what has gone wrong in seven years? well not much actually. An alternator, the fridge compressor, a few locker catches, a pump or two, several microwaves, and recently the hot water calorifier. The rig and deck gear is bullet proof, the decks are still good, shes still very dry, very comfortable, straightforward to owner-maintain, easy to sail double-handed, not that much harder solo, hasn't depreciated a great deal, plus there is great after-sales back-up, and entry into the Oyster regattas.

I know the boat that is currently for sale earlier in this thread, and shes in great condition. I guess the price reflects the current market, and the owners desire to sell. Most of the bigger Oysters will have been pro-skipper maintained from new, so some of the earlier comments are simply not appropriate, and before anyone says it, no I do not have any affiliations to Oystermarine.

As far as the title of this thread goes, I knew well the skipper of an older Swan 65. Lovely yacht, lovely classic lines, fast, and built like a tank, but needed four crew to sail her and twelve to race, plus an annual budget of $250,000 to keep her going. Not for the fainthearted. Sold for less than $400,000.

I went the opposite of you -- from Oyster to Moody. The boat I almost bought was a 485 -- my God, what a gorgeous boat. Floating sex. I loved it so much, but I jut couldn't deal with the condition. The 485s I saw were not skipper maintained, not the 53's and 55's for that matter.

The larger Moodys are very well screwed together, no worse than the comparable Oysters in my opinion. They are less pretty, however. Bill Dixon is a great designer, and his boats sail extremely well, but no one could draw a sailboat like Holman & Pye . . wow.

One of the things I really hated about my boat compared to the Oyster 485 I almost bought was the high freeboard at the bow compared to the Oyster. I've actually changed my mind about that, having had a few upwind bashes in high seas.

[hummingway]

I'm glad to hear that. The joinery in the Moody 64 I posted is so beautiful I would find it hard to believe that the people who built it didn't do a good job.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hummingway

I'm glad to hear that. The joinery in the Moody 64 I posted is so beautiful I would find it hard to believe that the people who built it didn't do a good job.

Yep. The joinery in my Moody 54 is stunning as well -- looks much better than the joinery in the Oyster I tried to buy. It's teak and looks more like the Swan joinery, than Oyster, which is all American oak over here.

Now that being said, my surveyor (who surveyed both boats) did tell me that the Moody joinery will not hold up as well. I don't know; maybe that's true but mine is still perfect and seems very solid. The Oyster I tried to buy and some broken joinery, and some of it was oak veneered particle board. I don't think my boat has any of that.

[sobriyah]

Interesting comments Dockhead.

I have to admit the Moody 54 I looked at appeared much better built than the 47's they had for sale, but it was way outside our budget. I liked some of Bill Dixons design features, the boat certainly had lots of showroom appeal, and we nearly bought a 47. Then we came across the 46 and she was in bad shape. The deck gear was worn out, one of the cleats was pulled clean out of the deck, all the interior joinery was trashed, and I don't think it had ever sailed from the the UK. I was a bit surprised Moody had her in the yard and not hidden somewhere, and I remember John Moody saying to me '...I hate to think how many hours Oyster put into their boats...' which was no advert either.

How long ago was it you tried to buy a 485? I am pretty sure I know which one you are referring to now you said it was fitted out in oak, they only built 35, and yes H+P knew how to draw sleek lines. Some of the Humphrey's designs look fat and ugly by comparison, although he has given them much more interior volume, and bigger cockpits.

I am surprised there was any particle board on the boat you saw, ours is all marine ply, but they did build them in two separate yards; Windboats and Landamores. Many of their smaller yachts get fitted out in New Zealand now, and I know some owners who have not been so pleased with them.

In my opinion the teak interior holds up far better over time, and ages more gracefully than oak, and I never did like the oak cabin soles.

I think you'll find the starting point for skipper maintained boats is with the 56, although I've seen some 53's with permanent skippers. The 55 is an older model, but still one of their best designs, and points well, as does the 485. It is the H+P designs that their reputation is built upon.

[MehmetCan]

This one looks great too...

2002 Oyster - Captain Maintained, Excellent Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[hummingway]

Lovely. I'm noticing that all of these big boats seem to have very high hours on the engine. Is it the case that they use the sails less often then someone on a smaller boat would? That is a lot of sail to carry!

[MehmetCan]

As a matter of fact that's a good thing since it means that the owners did not use the sails much. After all, it's much cheaper to replace the engine than replacing the rigging and/or sails!!! LOL!

[Sailorcanuck]

I better jump in to clarify a few things:

1) The new Moody's are not built by Dehler. Hanse bought Dehler as they were going down (Dehler is gone now). Hanse owns both the brands Moody plus Dehler. The hull of the Moody 62 is the same hull as the the Hanse 63. The other new Moody's use Hanse hulls too. The Moody 41 is based on the Hanse 40/ the Moody 45 is based on the Hanse 470.

2) As someone said above the Hanse/Moody hulls are very strong. Please come aboard my Hanse 371 and I'll show you sections of the hull and internal structure. The glass is approx 1.5" thick in the lower hull; the internal structures are built incredibly stong (approx 1" thick) plus all bulkheads are thickly tabbed using heavy glass top and bottom. These boats don't use a drop in liner glued to the hull with Plexux paste like Beneteau's and Jeanneau's.

[sobriyah]

Originally Posted by MehmetCan

This one looks great too...

2002 Oyster - Captain Maintained, Excellent Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Thats a lot of boat. Someones going to steal it, and very charterable too.

[Hartings]

Anyone have a view on the pro's and con's of the Moody 49 ie the last models built in the UK in 2005-08 before the company was taken over. Would they be a good yacht for the Med with only occasional offshore cruising ?

[Hartings]

As this subject is a bit OT I have started another thread - apologies for disturbing this thread !

[MehmetCan]

I believe the 49 would be perfect for Med. I know, most people just hate Hanse owned Moody's but they're still solid and since their quality is over Hanse, I believe they're just as good as any...