Buying a sailboat on the Great Lakes or buying on the ocean?

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's just too bad biking season and sailing season overlap so much -- at least up in the north.

I've enjoyed riding most of my life, and even did it professionally for many years--I was the first Midwest editor for Motorcyclist Magazine before I switched to writing books full time and my friend Aaron Frank took over--but now if I have a choice, sailing takes precedence over riding every time. In addition to it being easier to cross the Gulf Stream in a sailboat than a motorcycle, sailboats are more comfortable for live aboard use.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by DarwinHolmstrom

I've enjoyed riding most of my life, and even did it professionally for many years--I was the first Midwest editor for Motorcyclist Magazine before I switched to writing books full time and my friend Aaron Frank took over--but now if I have a choice, sailing takes precedence over riding every time. In addition to it being easier to cross the Gulf Stream in a sailboat than a motorcycle, sailboats are more comfortable for live aboard use.

Very true. Although there's a simplicity to life on the road. We (my spouse and I) took five months to go across Canada, then down the west coast to California, through the deserts, down to Texas, and then back up through the mid-states to Ontario a few years ago. We camped much of the time. It was glorious.

But my home is my boat. It certainly is far more comfortable, and can go places a bike never will. Cruising has taken precedence these last few years, which is why our bikes have been in storage. The Covid apocalypse has been hard, because we've lost our cruising season, but the silver lining has been getting back to the bikes.

BTW, I'm also a writer. Magazines for me I could never see how books could pay. Most of my so-called career has been in the science/medicine/tech areas, but of late my work (when I work) has been in the sailing/cruising markets. I haven't pitched to any motorcycle mags, but maybe I should...

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I'm also a writer. Magazines for me I could never see how books could pay.

I'd love to read your work! Is any of it available online?
As for writing for motorcycle magazines today, that doesn't pay what it used to pay since most of the paper magazines are shut down or have converted to non-paying internet journals. I'm afraid that is true of most forms of writing, and pretty much everything else at this moment; the entire house of cards that is fiat-based capital is collapsing and the idea of getting paid for anything may soon be a quaint memory from an archaic time. "Fiat" is latin for the "fait,h" that the currency has value. When people lose faith, the currency loses fiat. The best example of this is the Weimar Republic's deutschmark.
The $US dollar has only been a fiat currency since Nixon abandoned the Breton-Woods Accord in 1971 and took the $USD off the gold standard. The reason he was able to do that was because he conspired with Saudi Arabia to arrange for OPEC to only sell oil using $USD, creating the petrodollar. This hegemony in the world's oil bourses, and later hegemony in international monetary exchange using the SWIFT system, cemented the status of the $USD as the world's reserve currency, meaning we could print as much money as we want and other countries had to buy our debt or the costs of petroleum and international monetary exchange would explode. But in the past three years China has begun buying oil from Iran and Venezuela using their gold-backed petro yuan, Russia has begun selling natural gas to Europe using the Euro, and China is blowing up international monetary exchange with their one-belt, one-road system. The whole fiat-currency house of cards is collapsing around our ears; people haven't noticed this so far in 2020 because they've been focused on the COVID crisis, but they're starting to notice and things are getting a bit tense.
On the plus side this has finally motivated me to fulfill a dream I've had for over 30 years--learning to sail and living on an ocean-going sailboat. I've spent this summer taking ASA courses and have joined a local sailing club, getting out on small sloops two or three times each week. I've been watching the price of decent bluewater sailboats falling since the snow melted--right now many great boats are available for about the price of a nice late-model Toyota Camry (or slightly older Lexus ES). I believe this might be the perfect time to fulfill that lifelong dream. One can't get much farther off the grid than traveling the world in a sailboat and anchoring off tropical islands!

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I agree. There's a lot of similarities between sailing and motorcycling, and especially for (sailboat) cruising, and long-distance riding. The open air, the dependency on weather, the simplicity ... it's great.

It's just too bad biking season and sailing season overlap so much -- at least up in the north.

And the uncomfortable cockpit seating on long passages? lol

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

And the uncomfortable cockpit seating on long passages?

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Darwin,
Totally worth it especially if it was a fresh water boat its whole life.


Did the trip from MI a few years back thru the NYS Canal System (specifically the Erie portion starting in Buffalo) and it was fairly easy. Posted to friends as an "Adventure Series" and had various locations where they could get on/off. This was enough "crew" for the various legs and had quite a bid of fun catching up.

If the borders ever open again, the short cut from the Lake Huron would be to take the Trent-Severn Canal (near Georgian Bay) to Lake Ontario, then to Oswego to the EC. The other way as you know is via Lake Erie to Buffalo.
Using the EC will save lots of time and ~1,500 mi less than going thru the St. Lawrence. The last few years there hasn't been a fee to use the canal system and when I went thru it was only a modest fee.
Stepping/unstepping the mast (2 for our boat) wasn't a big deal. Typically at either end people are waiting to do the same thing. You help them, they help you, it all works out. The best was near Albany at the Castleton Boat Club. Nice place and a huge DIY mast lifting rig (seen on their website) for ~$30.


Good luck on your upcoming boat purchase. This will be the most difficult thing to do!

The Trent-Severn is limited to 5' draft at most, with shallow bits as well. Would spend on the particular boat chosen.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by AiniA

The Trent-Severn is limited to 5' draft at most, with shallow bits as well. Would spend on the particular boat chosen.

Thank you. The boat I'm looking at has an almost 7' draft. It looks like I'll have to take the Welland Canal if I go the St. Lawrence Seaway route. The Erie Canal has a maximum draft of 9'. Which route I choose may depend on whether or not Canada is open to U.S. tourism by next summer. If it is, I'll probably choose the St. Lawrence Seaway. If not, it looks like the Erie Canal is my best option, but if Canada is still closed to U.S. tourism by this time next year I'll probably want to get out of Dodge as soon as possible because I'm afraid that if we have one more year of this at least the Upper Midwest will turn into something that bears a worrisome similarity to France circa 1790. I'd prefer to view the 21st century Bastille Day from a distance.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by DarwinHolmstrom

... and my motorcycle had been stolen. Checked the security cameras and some skinny dude of European descent pushed it away at 1:25 am.

Hey Darwin, as a European I can only apologize for the actions of this individual of European descent! But what was it about him/her which gave you the European impression? Was it a pair of clogs on the feet, a French beret on top or some leathery & funky looking lederhosen? Or perhaps being a thief leads to the obvious European descent conclusion?

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

Hey Darwin, as a European I can only apologize for the actions of this individual of European descent! But what was it about him/her which gave you the European impression? Was it a pair of clogs on the feet, a French beret on top or some leathery & funky looking lederhosen? Or perhaps being a thief leads to the obvious European descent conclusion?

My grandfather came to Minnesota from Sweden so I guess that makes me of European descent myself. We couldn't make out his features, but his skin pigmentation indicated that his ancestors probably came from somewhere between France and Russia. "European descent" just seemed a bit more respectful than "scrawny white meth addict."

[valhalla360]

What models of boats are you looking at?

All else being equal, I would prefer a fresh water boat but big cruising boats aren't like F150's, so it may be an issue of the only one you find is on the ocean.

St. Lawrence Seaway would be a cool trip but it is a long distance. When you travel at what is basically a brisk walking pace, an extra 1500miles is a lot.

Erie Canal is a great trip in and of itself and allows a lot more flexibility in terms of weather as it's almost all protected narrow channels, so even if it's blowing like stink, you can still travel (within reason).

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

What models of boats are you looking at?

Next week I'm going to look at a C&C 37. If I like it, my offer is accepted, and it passes a survey and sea trail, it seems like a very good boat for my needs.

[stephenblitch]

Motorcycling and sailing are also both excellent pandemic activities, especially if most of the time one is solo. Out here in California, both are year-round activities except during fire season, which seems to be getting longer and fiercer every year. I have made the trip from near Toronto to Quebec on a boat (a C&C 34), with 3 of us, and it was just a fantastic trip. If the time is available, I would go the long way. I have the confidence now to do it solo - locks would have been a challenge for me solo a few years back. I've been back there on a motorcycle, camping in Canadian parks along the seaway and enjoying Nova Scotia, Cape Breton Island, New Brunswick etc. by land. Some of my best life memories.

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I bought my current boat while living on Lake Superior. I sailed it for five or six years, taking extended cruises on the Big Lake. Then me and my spouse sailed it from from Thunder Bay to Newfoundland over a couple of seasons. It was a grand journey.

You don't have to de-mast to do this journey if you take the Welland. It is a significant journey with lots of challenges. Only you can answer if it's not right for you, but it certainly can be done.

I echo Mike. We have done the St Lawrence route three times twice down, once up and it is not to be missed. We still consider it a highlight even after circumnavigating so why on earth would anyone not choose it? You can go fast or slow. We recommend slow! It is simply wonderful particularly northeast of Quebec city.

Voyaging the Great Lakes is also very nice although I hasten to add that we did so many years ago.

We also have done the Erie canal route several times and enjoyed it as well. That was also at least 35 years ago and the locks were in really rough shape with large holes in the stone work or concrete but I assume that is all fixed now. The St Lawrence locks are not only much bigger but also much easier.

Whale watching along the St Lawrence River and gulf is world class. As is the sailing with favourable winds and current.

Enjoy. Whatever your decision, and we strongly recommend the St Lawrence route, you will love it.

Jim sv GAIA

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by stephenblitch

Motorcycling and sailing are also both excellent pandemic activities, especially if most of the time one is solo.

I'm hoping the St. Lawrence Seaway will be open to U.S. pleasure craft soon. I've always wanted to go to Montreal. I have a friend who lives on the river near there, a motorcycle builder I used to work with (Mitch Bergeron--you might know of him if you've ever watched the television show "Biker Build-Off), and I would love to stop and see him. I was planning to visit him when I rode my motorcycle to the Montreal Jazz Festival this summer but then they closed the border to U.S. citizens.

[cdcorl]

Absolutely purchase in the Great Lakes. Fresh water! Only used 4 months a year! The boat will have half of the use compared to one in salt. You will also love the journey out. We were heading to the St. Lawrance this year and ended up on the Erie because of Covid. It is easy and fun.

Good luck, but I would definitely purchase a fresh water boat.