Buying a sailboat on the Great Lakes or buying on the ocean?

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by DarwinHolmstrom

Funny how that goes! I suspect that when living and traveling on a sailboat the months and seasons fly by even faster.

Yes, it’s a very sane way to live in an insane world.

I have finally found my perfect professional position:

Retired sailor bum; unemployed with income and benefits.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Over wintering an American boat in Canada has some legal challenges.

If I take the St. Lawrence route I'll probably leave in June to make it back to U.S. waters for the winter. Ideally I'd like to enter the Atlantic after hurricane season and make my way south.

The Erie Canal's draft is listed as 9ft, but if people are having trouble with 6ft, that would be a problem. The actual draft of the C&C 37 is 6.7 ft, which might mean that if they don't allow U.S. pleasure craft into Canada I may be trapped.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by DarwinHolmstrom

If I take the St. Lawrence route I'll probably leave in June to make it back to U.S. waters for the winter. Ideally I'd like to enter the Atlantic after hurricane season and make my way south.

The Erie Canal's draft is listed as 9ft, but if people are having trouble with 6ft, that would be a problem. The actual draft of the C&C 37 is 6.7 ft, which might mean that if they don't allow U.S. pleasure craft into Canada I may be trapped.

We draw 6.5' and never touched anywhere in the EC. Don't think you will have a problem going that route. I guess my real question would be what is your final destination? If you are going to the Gulf or Florida, maybe contemplate going down the Mississippi instead. No weather or Canadian legal issues either.

Will agree you should start your journey in June. When we went thru the EC in mid to late June we ran into parts of the canal where marinas were just starting to open from the winter (were not officially open). Would imagine timing for marina openings may be a similar in the St. Lawrence route.
The hurricane season in the Atlantic is officially until the end of Nov., while the insurance groups will say Nov.1 you can head S.. Will say you want to be down by the Ches. by Oct. and not wait to enter the Atlantic until Nov.
Lots of places to duck into to avoid weather on the way down the US coast.
No one at this time knows what will happen w/covid and associated restrictions in the future. Even if you purchase your boat now, you will have at least another year before your are ready to go and many things can change by then.
My 2 cents is buy the boat, sail it/get to know it, then prepare.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

And with a bit of luck and the right time of year just past Quebec City, the whales. We got lucky a few years ago and saw more than a handful. Wow, just did the math in my head and the few years ago is over 15 years ago.

Whales are amazing. We didn't start to see them till the Saguenay. Belugas first, then as we moved further along Minke, Fin, Humpback. Amazing... But our best whale events was our journey around the northern tip of Newfoundland. Lots of whales, with a few rather close encounters.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Whales are amazing.

The whales alone are reason enough to take the St. Lawrence Seaway rather than the Erie Canal. Hopefully the restrictions on recreational travel will ease by next summer.

[rslifkin]

The Erie Canal can shoal in spots. But in theory, target depth is 14 feet for the Eastern Erie and Oswego canals, 12 feet for the Western Erie. So a 7 foot draft shouldn't be a problem unless a spot has shoaled badly. When I transited the Eastern Erie and Oswego last year I saw one really shallow spot (like 5.5 feet) that was about to be dredged. I don't remember seeing under 7 feet anywhere else.

[hpeer]

Well I said folks would disagree.

But honestly you are affirming my report. With 7’ you may have to wait for a spot to be dredged.

I think we may agree on the actual conditions.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

The Welland Canal and the St. Lawrence Seaway will be my first choice, but taking that depends on Canada opening up to Americans entering the country. Right now I believe they are allowing U.S. pleasure craft to transit but they aren't allowing Americans to set foot on land without a 14-day quarantine. That would present a challenge for stocking up on water, produce, equipment, and other supplies, making waiting for a dredge a more viable option.

[rslifkin]

Under the current conditions, I'd say either go for the Welland, cross Lake Ontario, drop the mast in Oswego and take the canals from there. Or take the Erie the whole way. The Erie is the only option for singlehanding, but if you have a second person, you can do the Welland and get a little more sailing in before the mast has to come down. That route might be a day or so faster as well.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Under the current conditions, I'd say either go for the Welland, cross Lake Ontario, drop the mast in Oswego and take the canals from there. Or take the Erie the whole way. The Erie is the only option for singlehanding, but if you have a second person, you can do the Welland and get a little more sailing in before the mast has to come down. That route might be a day or so faster as well.

That sounds like good advice. I would love to see the Welland Canal system, and have a couple of good options for people to accompany me on that portion of the trip. Would the 6.7ft draft be a problem for taking the canals at Oswego?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by DarwinHolmstrom

That sounds like good advice. I would love to see the Welland Canal system, and have a couple of good options for people to accompany me on that portion of the trip. Would the 6.7ft draft be a problem for taking the canals at Oswego?

I don't remember seeing any shallow spots at all on the Oswego Canal last year. It's supposed to be good for 14 ft depth / 21 foot air draft. I know I never tripped my depth alarm at 7 feet.

[hpeer]

If I take the St. Lawrence route I'll probably leave in June to make it back to U.S. waters for the winter. Ideally I'd like to enter the Atlantic after hurricane season and make my way south.

That’s a pretty vague statement, open to a lot of interpretation.

One could interpret that to going through the gulf of St Lawrence, up the Quebeck/Lab coast, and around entering the Atlantic near St. John’s.

OR It could be making it to Sydney, NS before entering the Atlantic waters.

OR it could be the Straights of Canso.

All worthwhile trips.

I have sailed from Newfoundland to the east coast of the USA twice, in late summer. One year it was dead calm or with light head winds the whole way, I never shut off the engine. The other year it was 15-20 SW to LIS, I never shut off the engine. Both trips I had crew most of the way but also did some single handing. Both trips starts on NL East Coast, beyond St. John’s.

It is much more of a East/West route than a North/South route at least to American waters. Starting that route in Nov. will be an extreme challenge, and I would highly recommend starting as far West as possible, Canso.

Actually, if you want to be in US waters then take the Erie route or truck the boat. You really, really do NOT want to be single handing down the Atlantic coast of Canada that late in the season.

In the event you do decide upon this route, and make it, I suggest you get to Shelburne, NS. Great little town, there is a super market within walking distance. They have fuel, if they are still open, which I think is likely. Then from Shelbourne head to Marblehead or thereabouts. It’s about a 36 hour transit, you cross the tides and currents of the Bay of Fundy but they more or less cancel out. Pretty empty out there but you do have to watch. From Marblehead a looong day will put you in the Cape Cod Canal. Maybe overnight in Plymouth to wait for tide? But once in the Canal you are in relatively protected waters all the way South. The only mandatory outside run is past NJ.

If you run around to Yarmouth then you have the huge tides to deal with, it’s a much longer route, and you come down the whole coast of Maine. By then it will be December or later. Brrrrr.

There are a number of threads on this forum about sailing the NE states in late fall. Few would recommend leaving NY in November.

My 2¢:
Erie Canal even if you have to wait a month for dredging. Or truck it. Or over winter in Canada.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by hpeer

That’s a pretty vague statement, open to a lot of interpretation. ...
My 2¢, Erie Canal even if you have to wait a month for dredging. Or truck it.

That's good advice with useful links. Thank you.

It's difficult to make long-term plans that are anything but vague right now, with the international situation shifting dramatically from day to day. Unless the world regains its sanity over the next year or so, which seems less likely by the day, the Erie Canal route is probably the only realistic option. If I have the opportunity to visit the Maritime Provinces I will began planning a much more specific itinerary!

[rslifkin]

For the Erie Canal, I just remembered about this page: Navigating the Canals - New York State Canals

It's got links to pages with the most recent known depths for each section of the canal. So that'll give you a heads up about any spots where you're likely to encounter depth trouble.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

For the Erie Canal, I just remembered about this page: Navigating the Canals - New York State Canals

It's got links to pages with the most recent known depths for each section of the canal. So that'll give you a heads up about any spots where you're likely to encounter depth trouble.

Thank you! I've bookmarked that page. With every passing day the EC route begins to look more and more like the most realistic option.