Buying a sailboat on the Great Lakes or buying on the ocean?

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by DarwinHolmstrom

That might be a nice route to take during hurricane season.

Though do be aware that from about eastern Ohio over to the coast, hurricanes can still bring quite a lot of rain and high winds and flooding. Not the same as being in a hurricane, of course, but enough to cause some trouble and property damage.

These systems typically track up over land from Florida/the Gulf/maybe the Carolinas, so pretty much anything on this end of the country I’d just keep a close eye on the forecasts and take them seriously, and also possibly do some investigation if flooding was a concern to familiarize myself with how the area I planned to be in typically floods if it does - there are always bits along the rivers that seem to get the worst of the damage from flooding when it happens, which even if it doesn’t effect you directly may mean resources you were anticipating like marinas and shops won’t be available, and you may have to wait out the flooding to transit an area safely.

I mention this mostly because there are always a fair number of people who don’t take it seriously because it’s no longer a hurricane at that point and we are inland and ‘safe’, and they’re the ones who do things like not properly securing their boat in a marina for the possible conditions so that it breaks free and causes a mess for everyone else.

I wouldn’t feel unsafe going through the area during hurricane season, I’d just keep an eye on things and be prepared to change my plans as needed, perhaps sit tight a couple of days to let the weather move through, that sort of thing. Also be aware of the conditions with regards to flooding - even if the actual flooding is upstream of you it’ll usually mean more debris in the water to deal with.

(I grew up in Western PA, I swear every time we got hurricane remnants, there’d be at least one news story about a mess at a marina because someone’s boat got loose and ran into other boats.)

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by PirateFoxy

Though do be aware that from about eastern Ohio over to the coast, hurricanes can still bring quite a lot of rain and high winds and flooding. Not the same as being in a hurricane, of course, but enough to cause some trouble and property damage.

I hear that. While riding motorcycle to Suches, GA in September 2002 I got caught in the remnants of Hurricane Gustav and that was the worst rain I've ever ridden through.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by DarwinHolmstrom

I hear that. While riding motorcycle to Suches, GA in September 2002 I got caught in the remnants of Hurricane Gustav and that was the worst rain I've ever ridden through.

The storms are well known by the time they get that far inland and there are plenty of stops along the route where you can hold up and wait out the weather or flooding.

While you always must respect the weather anywhere, there really isn't anything special you have to worry about if you are paying attention. The Corp of Engineers does a pretty good job controlling things and with the spring floods long gone by the time people head south in the fall, they typically have capacity to moderate it with the dams they run. We sat out a week on the Mississippi when it was flooded but no real concern other than having to wait it out.

So do pay attention to the weather forecast but hurricane avoidance really isn't a big consideration with the route.

[MikeInMaine]

What really matters to me is getting the boat I want/need. If you can find it locally great. Otherwise if you settle for something locally that doesn't meet your needs you're risking the usefulness of your investment. If you find the "perfect" boat and it's not local, but is a reasonable distance, you can hire someone to deliver it or hire someone with a lot of experience to accompany you on the journey. Great way to learn everything about a boat and it's not like you'd be crossing an ocean.

Mike in Maine
P33-1 Brizo

[tjmoquin]

We bought our 2003 Hunter 41 in March of this year and have been living on it on Lake Texoma since May. I am so glad we decided to do our "practice year". The boat is still not 100% the way we would want it but she's almost perfect. There are so many things that we have learned and many purchases that we have made. It would have been very difficult to attain many items from another country without Amazon 2 day delivery... water pumps, o-rings, impellers, etc. We are learning how to fix things too so we won't have to rely on mechanics, etc which can get very expensive.

Even after 3 months, we still don't know enough so I think 6-12 months is a good goal for test living. We may move her to the ocean, or we may sell her and start over with a Carribbean boat. Haven't decided. But either way, there will be a whole new learning curve living on the ocean. It's a good idea.

[Mainstreet]

In 2016 we decided to buy a cruising ketch and sail the Caribbean. We already had a Mirage 35 on the Great Lakes. Our choice was to buy a boat in the southern US and keep the Mirage 35. We bought our ketch in Slidell Louisiana and sailed through the Gulf, The Bahamas and the Southern States along the east coast of the US. During the summer, hurricane season, we left the ketch in South Carolina and lived aboard the Mirage. In winter we cruised in the ketch. Maintaining two boats was not an issue for us. We had to live somewhere and the costs were equivalent to living either in an apartment or rental and a whole lot more fun! Three years later we sold both boats and came ashore because my wife needed a knee replacement. That being done and very successfully, were now back looking for a sailboat again.

Sorry for all the back story but it illustrates why I recommend buying a boat down south rather than cruising one down from the Great Lakes. Additionally, there are huge numbers of vessels for sale in the southern US at prices well below what you’d pay for an equivalent on the Great Lakes. I know some folks will speak to the fact of salt vs fresh water issues with used vessels but there are a lot of them out there that have been carefully upgraded and cared for and are great value.

[H0BBES]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

If you do the Erie Canal, you can singlehand as long as you're confident in your ability to do it. The Welland requires 2 people downbound (3 upbound), but the Erie has no such restriction.

Question about your Erie Canal comment. Having done the canal last month (westbound), how would you control any boat over 30 feet without two people in a lock? You're not supposed to tie up when you're in a lock and the boat tends to get pushed around (at least when the lock fills) and we needed two people holding on to the provided lines to stay in control of the boat.

Maybe one strong person can do this, but it seems risky, from my perspective.

I'd like to hear what you think.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by H0BBES

Question about your Erie Canal comment. Having done the canal last month (westbound), how would you control any boat over 30 feet without two people in a lock? You're not supposed to tie up when you're in a lock and the boat tends to get pushed around (at least when the lock fills) and we needed two people holding on to the provided lines to stay in control of the boat.

Maybe one strong person can do this, but it seems risky, from my perspective.

I'd like to hear what you think.

I personally wouldn't want to do it single handed on any decent size boat. It's one of those cases of "you can, but that doesn't mean you should". But in the locks with pipes or cables available, it wouldn't be too bad. You'd take a line around the pipe or cable at a midship cleat and use that to hold the boat close to the wall with big fenders to take care of any pivoting. The locks with drop lines only would be a challenge.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Good advice from everyone. Thank you. If I can find the right boat on the Great Lakes I think I'll go that route. I checked out a C&C 37 and it was nice, but it hadn't been put in the water yet this year. I also looked at a very nice Aztec Nautilus 36 Pilothouse, built on a C&C 36 hull, and I loved the boat, but it had some structural issues. A survey last month revealed some deck rot and it needs a new rudder. I don't have access to the survey so I don't know the extent of the repair work needed, but the boat was otherwise very nice and at this time of year I could probably get it for a third the price of the C&C. With its shoal draft (4.7ft) and pilothouse, the Aztec might be an easier boat for me to operate solo. I'm waiting on an estimate for repair costs on the deck and rudder before making an offer on either boat.

To be honest, the situation where I live (Minneapolis-St. Paul area) is making me anxious to get away from the metro area as quickly as possible. we are once again under curfew, which is being enforced by the Minnesota National Guard. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say things are getting tense in the city.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I personally wouldn't want to do it single handed on any decent size boat. It's one of those cases of "you can, but that doesn't mean you should". But in the locks with pipes or cables available, it wouldn't be too bad. You'd take a line around the pipe or cable at a midship cleat and use that to hold the boat close to the wall with big fenders to take care of any pivoting. The locks with drop lines only would be a challenge.

If I buy on the Great Lakes, I plan to have someone capable with me whichever route I take to the Atlantic. I'm strong, but I've seen (and felt) how easily a small sloop can mangle a grapple hook in strong wind so I can imagine the challenges. I have a relative who is extremely capable who is interested, and if he's unavailable there are a couple of people I can hire for the EC route. Barring that, I can spend the next year searching on Crew Bay.

[_m_miles]

I planned to sail my Beneteau 331 from Chicago to New York City this summer, but the pandemic derailed my plans. It looks like a really amazing journey, especially if you have the time to enjoy it (instead I had to ship it on a truck.)

You might find a boat in better condition on the Great Lakes, with the shorter seasons and fresh water. Of course, you'll probably need to repaint the bottom for salt water.

Buying a boat locally gives you two serious benefits: immediate enjoyment and a chance to explore Lake Superior.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by _m_miles

I planned to sail my Beneteau 331 from Chicago to New York City this summer, but the pandemic derailed my plans. It looks like a really amazing journey, especially if you have the time to enjoy it (instead I had to ship it on a truck.)

You might find a boat in better condition on the Great Lakes, with the shorter seasons and fresh water. Of course, you'll probably need to repaint the bottom for salt water.

Buying a boat locally gives you two serious benefits: immediate enjoyment and a chance to explore Lake Superior.

I'm afraid that next summer might be even more restrictive and chaotic than this summer has been. It might even be difficult to take the EC route by next year. Trucking the boat might end up being the only option. But traveling to see view boats is also virtually impossible. There are many great boats for sale from Canada to the Gulf of Cortez to the Caribbean, but many listings aren't allowing pulling boats out of the water for survey or sea trials because of COVID fears. And many people are blocked from getting to their boats because of travel bans.

[Flightdeck]

Hi Darwin
A few throughts, in no particular order.
1. Agree with buying a freshwater boat, much less to bring up to snuff for long term cruising. Had a Catalina 36 in North Carolina...and a constant battle with corrosion.
2. C & Cs are racers (I am a recovered racer) and are relatively inexpensive, but beware of the core decks. As a racer, it is fast, BUT tender, and may not be the most comfortable in a seaway.
3. Was a pro crew on a C & C 61 that we took from Chicago to Miami, through the Erie Barge Canal. Low clearance, and needed to take down the mast. We sailed through a hurricane and broke the boom in 25' seas about 100m off shore in cold air and water. Now makes for good cocktail talk about problems calming down moving parts wtih greenies washing down the deck.
4. Currently have a Shannon 38, thought about taking it out the Saint Lawrence and then either across the pond or points south. Friends have made the sail, a bit scratchy in certain areas, planning for fuel, water, etc required before you leave. Time of year is critical and avoiding storm season in August/September strongly recommended. Tight timing to get get to the turning point wx turns nasty.
5. Sarah Belle is on Lake Superior. Canada is closed for the year...so much for north shore this year.
6. Strongly recommend you get a strong boat and getting to know it before setting out. An SSB/Ham radio and weather tracking and other electronics should be thought through. Make sure everyting works and in good shape. Plan spare parts.
7. If you are starting in the Great Lakes, you might try joining Great Lakes Cruising Club...great cruising information and good to meet other cruisers and get alot of stories and advice. If on Lake Superior, a copy of Lake Superior Cruising Guide is the bible up here.
8. A copy of Jimmy Cornell "World Cruising Routes" provides great information.
9. A blue water cruiser, like Sarah Belle, would be my first coice for a boat. A bit more money, but the strength and stability is well worth it. Had to sail 100km to haul last winter in gale force winds and 15-25' waves, she performed flawlessly, better than the crew.
Much more to think about before buying and setting out...but this forum is a good start.
Good luck, email if you wish, CaptainBruce@SarahBelle.org

[theBigKahuna]

Saltwater is a lot harder on boats than fresh, and you'd get a year to get familiar so those are positives for buying in the GLs.

We bought and brought our cat up from FtL to Chicago last fall/this summer. Single handed would be a bit of work and while the Erie Canal might be easier to nav than Nova Scotia, many of the locks (and there are MANY) have strong currents that will muck w/ you in the locks.

An adventure... yes. But TBH, we look fwd to our adventures being quite a bit more salty!!! Nothing against the Great Lakes, but we're here for business / family reasons and our hearts in south of FL. As Buffett sang "Me, I want to live with my feet in Dixie And my head in the cool blue North"

Happy adventures however you proceed!!

[CaptWho]

It would be an exciting journey from the Great Lakes to the Atlantic Ocean. I'd love to give it a try sometime. Unfortunately it's doubtful that it's in my future unless I purchase a boat somewhere on one of the lakes.