Buying a sailboat on the Great Lakes or buying on the ocean?

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Another consideration is how much livability do I compromise for blue-water capability. It's possible that I could spend many years exploring the water around North, Central, and South America, as much as I love the idea of sailing west and exploring the Andaman Sea!

[hpeer]

Darwin,

After we bought our 44’ full keel I talked to the original owner and asked him what advice he would give.

“Stay out of marinas.”

What KIND of cruiser are you or how do you imagine yourself and where will you be cruising?

We avoid marinas like the plague because of WHO we are. We just spent 7 months afloat, in that time we douched dock 4 times:
Launch
A scheduled modification/upgrade - welding hand rails
Fuel
Haul

We were on a mooring twice: Once because it was all that was available (the Saints) and once to get closer to a WIFI source. So for us it’s not much impediment.

Before we retired and kept the boat at a slip it was different and the poor backing was a serious consideration. I eventually learned how to back and fill and can spin the boat to starboard pretty well. Port is an entirely different story. Straight backing? Impossible.

I’ve been envious of some who can apparently steer as well in reverse as forward. And if I was a weekender in a big marina then I would be looking for a different boat.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Before we retired and kept the boat at a slip it was different and the poor backing was a serious consideration.

This is very good information. Thank you. I'll have to keep whatever boat I buy in a slip on Lake Superior until at least next June or August, depending on whether or not I can travel the St. Lawrence Seaway or if I have to take the Erie Canal route next year. I'm hoping to spend as much time as possible sailing and learning the boat during that time. I love to sail and will need much practice to become a proficient operator before leaving so I will be entering and exiting the slip at least on a weekly basis, and often more. I have experience docking power boats of 26-28 ft on Lake of the Woods, and have some experience bringing keel boats of 22-24 ft into slips and moors.

When I leave, though, I'll be like you. I'll avoid marinas and moors as much as possible. I used to be the Midwest editor for Motorcyclist Magazine and spent many summers basically living on the motorcycles I was testing, often being on the road for weeks at a time. Even though I could expense hotels and campgrounds, I preferred to find out of the way places to camp in nature, the equivalent of anchoring. Compared to camping with just the gear I could pack on a motorcycle, sleeping in the cabin of a sailboat will seem luxurious!

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by DarwinHolmstrom

Another consideration is how much livability do I compromise for blue-water capability. It's possible that I could spend many years exploring the water around North, Central, and South America, as much as I love the idea of sailing west and exploring the Andaman Sea!

I’ve not crossed the pond but I’ve done some passages and sail around Newfoundland.

IMHO you don’t want to nor do you need to compromise livability for sailing comfort.

In the first place as a live aboard 90% of your time is spent on the boat, it is your HOME.

It’s highly likely you will spend significant time in the trade winds. The sailing there can be challenging with 20-25 knots sustained between islands. I talked to a very experienced couple who sailed a 37’er from France and spent summers aboard in Maritime Canada. He was very clear, he would rather sail across the Atlantic than do the Cabot Straights. A couple of years ago they recorded a verified 100’ wave in that area. Then think about Cape Hatteras. The point is that you can get some very nasty stuff relatively close ashore.

My hobby horse: LOD vs. Displacement. Displacement is the measure of how big a hole you put in the water, it reflects volume, volume below the water line. Some boat have large volume and low displacement, they sit ON the water. Boats with heavy displacement sit IN the water. I think it’s useful to look at and compare boats displacement as a measure of size (volume) rather than LOD.

Both numbers can be suspect as builders will take a 41.5’ boat, tack on a swim platform and call it a 44’er. While someone else would call it 41’. Folks fib about displacement, often understating it. Is the displacement bare tanks as delivered, half tanks sailing, or full tanks cruising mode with spares?

This goes back to the marina question. We met a couple with a newish 43’ Benateau. Had tons of nice living features and sailed real well. Fridge, freezer, water maker, etc. And light, low displacement. BUT they would not run the fridge because they a 42 gallon fuel tank and no wind, no solar. They could not afford to run the generator. I think they had like 70 gallons of water. So the boat was a bassalope, neither beast nor fowl.

If you are afloat for significant periods you need to think of the boat as your home and it needs to be comfortable. Sufficient tankage, water and fuel is vital. You don’t need AC or a water maker. And if later decide you do, you can add it. You DO need refrigeration.

Again, my opinion/advice only.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by hpeer

If you are afloat for significant periods you need to think of the boat as your home and it needs to be comfortable. Sufficient tankage, water and fuel is vital. You don’t need AC or a water maker. And if later decide you do, you can add it. You DO need refrigeration.

Again, thank you. You are answering many of the questions I haven't gotten around to asking yet!

I have no interest in AC, but I am planning to add solar, wind, a cold plate in the icebox, and also a water maker. I know that's expensive an a lot of work to set up, but when I used to camp on motorcycle keeping supplied with drinking water was always difficult. I once had heat stroke between Los Vegas and Albuquerque, became ill in Winslow, Arizona, and ended up only making it to Gallup. If I'm going to get a water maker, it seems like it would be better to install that now and get it dialed in before I leave for good.

[rslifkin]

To add to what hpeer mentioned, upgrading power systems (battery capacity, adding solar and/or a wind gen, etc.) is typically much easier than adding tankage. In many places if water capacity isn't adequate, a water maker can mitigate that issue. There's no good solution to inadequate fuel capacity though.

[DarwinHolmstrom]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

There's no good solution to inadequate fuel capacity though.

It seems like most of the boats I'm looking at have fuel tanks in the 40-50 gallon range. It seems like almost all of them have boards strapped to their stanchions designed to be places for lashing jerry cans.

[eemahoney]

You may also consider doing the inland rivers to go south, then around the Keys and to the Bahamas.

Every fall, there seems to be a group of Sailors who drop the masts in Chicago and truck them to Mobile. You end up with about 45 days as a trawler, but a lot of stuff to see.

We did it in 2014 with our Endeavour 42, cost was 350 Plus stepping and unstepping. My wife and I had a blast.

[slugsgomoo]

Originally Posted by eemahoney

You may also consider doing the inland rivers to go south, then around the Keys and to the Bahamas.

Every fall, there seems to be a group of Sailors who drop the masts in Chicago and truck them to Mobile. You end up with about 45 days as a trawler, but a lot of stuff to see.

We did it in 2014 with our Endeavour 42, cost was 350 Plus stepping and unstepping. My wife and I had a blast.

I watched a Youtube channel of some folks who went down the river to the gulf, I think it starts ~episode 23 https://www.youtube.com/c/SailingSoulianis/videos

Between that, and Sailing Magic Carpet, there's a part of me that is pretty intrigued by doing a jaunt down a river/canal system someday, but with me having a ketch rig, twice the hassle

[GregNelson]

Hi folks,
Not exactly on topic but since many on this thread familiar with great lakes, if there was a power outage or other problematic scenario would the locks keep working? Have they ever been shut down for a period or anyone had issues getting through during COVID?

[DarwinHolmstrom]

It's very difficult to get into Canada on a sailboat right now. I'm planning to take the Erie Canal when I go to the Atlantic next summer. I don't expect borders to ever really open up again in countries with strong central governments.

[theBigKahuna]

Originally Posted by GregNelson

Hi folks,
Not exactly on topic but since many on this thread familiar with great lakes, if there was a power outage or other problematic scenario would the locks keep working? Have they ever been shut down for a period or anyone had issues getting through during COVID?

We build in time for locks to be shutdown/malfunctioning/busy... I really don't think you can predicate your schedule on getting thru each lock smoothly (completed Erie Canal and had lots of fun w/ the locks).

[DarwinHolmstrom]

I've gotten on a mailing list with information about the Erie Canal from this site: New York State Canals It's useful and always up to date during the season.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by GregNelson

Hi folks,
Not exactly on topic but since many on this thread familiar with great lakes, if there was a power outage or other problematic scenario would the locks keep working? Have they ever been shut down for a period or anyone had issues getting through during COVID?

Quite the broad questions there Greg. I doubt a power outage would cause significant delays in Seaway lock activity. I've certainly never heard of any. There have been shipping accidents that have closed things down for a time, but those are exceedingly rare.

Recreational boaters were banned from using the Seaway locks early on in the pandemic. But this shifted to a more restrictive, but functioning, schedule by later in the boating season. I expect the coming recreational season will see the same more limited, but still open, activity. But as always, you should check before heading out.

You don't indicate if you're a Canadian, or American, or other national. Either way, there were no nationality-specific barriers to using the locks during the recent pandemic season.

[theBigKahuna]

Fully agree w/ Mike OReilly! That's why it's a float plan. Timing could be wrong and you're trolling around the gate for (ever). Locks (like boat) break when you least want them to, etc. Locks and various bridges can add huge variables to estimates!