Buying an Unfinished Boat

[SkiprJohn]

If you just have to do it just remember that in today's market you can get a reasonably cared for used boat for about half the cost you'll sink into a bare hull that has not been completed. What you'll end up with is a fine boat that won't resell because it isn't production and has been owner built and you'll never recoup what you've sunk into it.
You'll gain lots of boatbuilding experience.
regards,
JohnL

[SabreKai]

SkiprJohn has the right of it. With things the way they are, you would be better off buying a used production boat, thats ready to go. Find one you like with maybe a few things you think need changing if you want to play at boat building. Otherwise you will be pouring money down a hole. It takes a particular kind of masochist to build a boat from scratch or finish a part built one. I've tried it a couple times, both failed because of lack of cash or other problems. I finally bought a good sized boat (Sabre Dance) that works, and I'll spend some time redoing things I don't like rather than having to start almost from scratch. I can live with her the way she is but I like to putter around so I'll change things to suit my tastes rather than live with other peoples ideas but I'll do it at a slow pace, as I can afford to. In the mean time she sails.

[Stevens 47]

I purchased a Stevens 47 at a insurance auction, it was a Katrina victim. Purchase price was almost free, cost three times the purchase price to truck to San Diego. I started work on her in February 2006 took a leave of absence from work July 2008, as I was going nuts trying to get boat building time and work time sorted out. I have been working 6 days dawn to dusk since. I could not see taking 10 years part time to finish as I am 54. Should be finished sometime in late 09. I removed most of the interior from the main bulkhead back to get to the hull to affect repairs. I basically had a bare hull. It has cost me more than I want to think about and allot more that I thought it would in dollars. As others have said working on the boat is time not sailing. Its coming along really well, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel...but this type of project is not for the faint of heart, I can see why so few actually finish. The thing I have going for me is my stubborn pride in not wanting to be one of the "I told you so's". I have posted pictures into my photo album...which I think is viewable to other members. Still have not figured out how to get them from my photo album to photo gallery.

[Boracay]

Stevens 47,
I had a look at your photos.
Very nice looking work. Wish I could do work that good.

[captmick39]

Originally Posted by Joli

It will take longer then you plan, cost way more then buying a boat complete and ready to go, and there is a very good chance you will not finish it and will loose your investment.

Hats off to Bob Kingsland, simply phenominal. You are the rare exception.

Seconded...been there, done that & Bob,
I can relate.
Patient wives are God's gift to boat "restorers" & builders.
Then tolerate, understand and eventually make theirs,
OUR Dreams.
It's a wonderful thing....
Now
Git 'Er DONE!

-Mick

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by bob kingsland

I only have two regrets... that I didn't have more money to pay for competent help, to speed it upS/V Restless

Bob, there aint enough money on earth to pay someone as competent as you when it comes to interior work. First rate, mate!

[captmick39]

Originally Posted by Solosailor

I've been giving some consideration in the purchase of an unfinished Fraser 41. However I keep talking myself out of it because I don't know what it will cost in terms of money and time to finish it.

The deck is bare. What would it cost to buy a good used mast and hardware?

The interior is really amateur, but I think I can make it into something with a bit of work. It will never be a proper yacht interior though.

Has anyone here bought and unfinished boat and completed it? I would like to hear from you.

My Grandfather bought me a t-shirt after having refinished untold prams, lightnings, tons of "little"(less than 20') boats, simply re-fitting others neglected boats was 1 thing...Then I built my OWN, from scratch, under his watchful eye & input...a 15' "knockabout" (I still have the sails and the plans...think they were "glenL", will have to look now), took a month working 4-6 hrs a night, after homework was done; I was 14, the t-shirt read" "IF You can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch"...w/a bloodhound on the porch pictured.

50 now, wouldn't dream of Your task contemplated unless ALL OTHER PROJECTS currently underway were DONE, and HAVING my own facility to work on it, inside, out of the weather, EVERY NIGHT, I'd budget (including weekends and 6 hrs per night) 2 years for Your project, and I've been doing this life long, full time & part time, for a living. Any boat over 35' is at least a year long project. Any boat over 40' make it 2, add a year for every 5 feet is the theme. IF You have the time, and BOATloads of money, AND another boat to SAIL,(for every now & then You HAVE to take a break)...and if You don't know how to do ALL of it (cabinetry, I picked up on, there's also electrical (110/220v AND lots of 12v/24vDC), Plumbing, Rigging, FB refinishing, painting; as stated "ALL OF IT", You'll have to hire on experienced folks who don't come cheap, and don't share Your love/obsession for THIS Vessel.

Hard Numbers...for a Rig...that would include Mast, Boom, Whisker & Spinnaker poles, Standing and running rigging, winches (mast, primary, secondary, latter 2 being self tailing, all cleats, tracks, cars, blocks, traveler, vang
$30-$35,000.oo; possibly as "cheap" as $18k if You went with exclusively "used" in serviceable condition on the hardware(excluding standing & running rigging...new, or don't bother).

Make it a "proper Yacht" for the interior, or You'll never be happy...just getting depressed every time You look in from the companionway. Sounds like You might have the skills, it's no where near the costs, it's 10x the labor(of love)that the rig is; Sometimes just getting 1 piece cut "just right" can take a couple hours & 2-3-6-12 trips to the saw(that'd be up and down that ladder to the saw to You..."trust me" on this---knees wear out.

I've done 5 bare hulls, and 3 damaged 1's in similar size and condition (or better/worse) so far in this lifetime. I wouldn't shy away from Your project...I also wouldn't expect to finish for 3-5 years under present circumstances (married, grown kids, facilities, tools, knowledge, most of the necessary materials already, AND money. It's not an endeavor taken lightly.

Aside from our keepers (20' daysailor, 28' daysailor, 22' Center Console Openfish & 39' Pearson...although it might be soon traded for a P40, similar year) EVERYTHING bought is to restore/re-fit and RE-SELL. It IS a business & I don't fall in "love". Knowing what OTHERS seek is critical & frankly, flipping houses (even in todays market) would probably be a far better use of the time & money. Somebody said "some like to work on 'em, some like to sail", some get the luxury of doing both as a 3rd option.

Solo, we have no idea the cost or condition other than what You stated (& that's very vague); if there's a broker involved, it's probably too much. If the existing owner has had it as a project for more than 5 years, it's probably too much. Knowing just rig costs now, You can better contemplate this venture. Unless it's a fabulously good price, it's not worth pursuing. You won't get it done quickly unless You're independently wealthy, don't have kids at home or a significant other, AND can keep this At Your home while working on it. Any other scenario & each other deviation adds significant time to the bottom line. A regular "job" alone can make it a lot longer.

Only the seller knows what he'll really take for it, and he won't tell You until it's a life & death decision to get rid of it. Make an insanely low offer, knowing it'll take You Minimum $50k to properly fit this boat, & $60k to equip it realistically.

[captmick39]

Solo,

reading the last line of former post may have been confusing....
the $50k for FITTING is getting the boat prepared to splash.

The $60k is for equipping...
that means cushions (probably $10-$15k)both cockpit & interior
Electronics (fm. 5k to 50k "depending" on Your tastes & budget)
Rugs & other creature comforts/"decorating" (wide open)
and so on.

ADD the $60k to the $50k was the point.

You'll spend the money EITHER Way, so if it's not a labor of love, opt for sail away condition, for similar vessels are easily available in this market for equivilant money to that which You contemplate....
minus the 2-3-4 thousand hours vest by completion in that labor of love.

It won't go fast & it NEVER comes cheap, unless You have sources for everything at below new cost for "almost" new.

On the upside, NoBody Will Know that boat better than You & photo albums are MANDATORY! You'll thank Yourself the rest of Your life for every time You go "click" years & decades later.

[Solosailor]

I think looking at boat and boat projects is a lot like women. A guy needs people to tell him to give his head a shake. Funny now as I look back at the project I go "WHAT WAS I THINKING!"

Thanks for the advice.

[captmick39]

Originally Posted by Solosailor

I think looking at boat and boat projects is a lot like women. A guy needs people to tell him to give his head a shake. Funny now as I look back at the project I go "WHAT WAS I THINKING!"

Thanks for the advice.

(Funny You should make that comparison/analogy)
Working on a 28' knockabout (wood...herreshoff designed racer, before the current buttheads making glass versions locked up the plans...that'd be stuart) in 1977 (Sr. in HS, still under the watchful eye of the the grandpappy master carpenter/boatwright, standing up on that puppy covered in sanding dust fairing in freshly installed deck, this spectacularly svelt & gorgeous thing came strolling across the yard on the way to inspect her daddy's boat & my tongue (along w/myself) nearly fell from 6+ feet up in the air "gawking like a bumpkin"...Gramps noticed the distraction;
He thought a second & said a line I'd never heard before then, & quite a few times since...

"Son, no matter how pretty, well built, perfectly spoken or just drop dead gorgeous, remember this for the rest of Your life.....
SOme GUy, SOme WHere...is absolutely Fed Up w/her sh*t!
(& the old man never swore...now connect YOUR posting to mine )

Message sent & recieved.
Looks like You got that same message, Solo.
Good for You.
Don't sweat it, You want 1 to fix, there's a big blow rolling off the Cape Verde's as this is typed, tomorrow she may start taking some shape...could well be a CAT 5 this time next wk, bearing down on some poor helpless forelorn Marina & boat filled neck of the coastline from Virginia to Brownsville...if so after the insurance company beancounters finish cutting checks & start the auctions, there will be a smorgesbord(sp) of formerly loved, now discarded from slightly scratched and banged up rails, to the completely totalled...something on the nice end will cost You, but be worth the trip, transport, and minimal repairs (which usually take weeks, versus YEARS) so don't turn Your back on that dream (of owning & FIXING) just yet, as...
Hurricane Season is upon us Bro...You never, ever know. We're ready, packed & waiting....You should consider the 3rd wave, after dust settles, when things are sorted out and titles are in hand, those auctions will shock You...in this downturned economy, I'd think You might just hit the mother lode dirt cheap?

Stay tuned to the weather (all the rest of us will be),
-Mick

[joseph gamber]

I have been woking on our 55 for four years it was started 26 years ago by the first owner. Iam about 160.000 and my plus my time but Iam not their yet so buyer be ware hope is the answer you were looking for. full steam ahead

[bruce smith]

We see here the influence of folks needing their yacht to be yachty.
My humble vessel ( avatar) was built in 15 months (3 for the hull). 1200 hours to get sailing. It can be done.