Buying boat that is out of water for the winter

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Maybe my mistake? I can't see those prices for a 28' boat.

Not sure what you mean ? You can't see the attachment ?

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Appreciate some of the comments. It's Nov in New England. Boats don't get moved. Boats that are winterized don't have their engines re run , out of the water. Yards are running over full tilt just to get everything set before snow and hard freeze comes in the next 1-3 weeks.

Plus it is crazy covid time. Yards are way understaffed. Can't even get a surveyor to come for 2-3 weeks. Several of them up north have already gone down south for business down there.

BTW, I had a friend who surveyed on the hard, even had the sails looked at. Seems to be great. In the spring, roller furler didn't work at all. Seller never disclosed this. Hence my thoughts on a small holdback.

Buying a boat on the hard in the fall is waaaay different than buying in the spring.

You aren’t the first person to buy a boat under these conditions. Actually, it’s rather common as is some stipulation that some consideration be held pending sea trial later. Brokers up north should be well-versed in the process assuming you have one. Regardless, running a winterized engine and then re-winterizing it is quite simple.

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

You aren’t the first person to buy a boat under these conditions. Actually, it’s rather common as is some stipulation that some consideration be held pending sea trial later. Brokers up north should be well-versed in the process assuming you have one. Regardless, running a winterized engine and then re-winterizing it is quite simple.

Exactly. Hence my post on "what do I need to put in the P&S or do I ask for in an escrow concession".

Running a winterized engine in Nov in New England is not an easy thing to do, and certainly not in Nov of 2021. Yards are running 100% flat out with 75% of previous staff. Charging $110/hr, min of 4 hour work. In March, maybe. I can check the sails on the pavement. But I can't see how they go up the mast, can't see if the furler works, don't know exactly how well standing rigging is (yeah, that mast and its wrapped up stays are on horses with 100 other masts all packed in), and as others said, can't see how the shaft turns, if the stuffing box leaks, etc. etc.

Why you need to sea trial the boat. Sea trial doesn't mean how it sails (though you might get some of that in 15 minutes you get but that depends upon the wind of the day), it means, does the boat leak, float well, list, does the motor drive the boat, do the sails go up and down easily, etc. etc.

While I appreciate comments, most from out the area and certainly out the county have very little bearing on how things are done in a certain region.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Exactly. Hence my post on "what do I need to put in the P&S or do I ask for in an escrow concession".

Running a winterized engine in Nov in New England is not an easy thing to do, and certainly not in Nov of 2021. Yards are running 100% flat out with 75% of previous staff. Charging $110/hr, min of 4 hour work. In March, maybe. I can check the sails on the pavement. But I can't see how they go up the mast, can't see if the furler works, don't know exactly how well standing rigging is (yeah, that mast and its wrapped up stays are on horses with 100 other masts all packed in), and as others said, can't see how the shaft turns, if the stuffing box leaks, etc. etc.

Why you need to sea trial the boat. Sea trial doesn't mean how it sails (though you might get some of that in 15 minutes you get but that depends upon the wind of the day), it means, does the boat leak, float well, list, does the motor drive the boat, do the sails go up and down easily, etc. etc.

While I appreciate comments, most from out the area and certainly out the county have very little bearing on how things are done in a certain region.

i and others here who live/have lived in northern climates and particularly New England where we are from have done just what you are planning, sometimes numerous times, and have suggested what to do and how to do it.including myself.

And thanks but we know what a sea trial is and what is consists of. Was just trying to help. Given your response(s), won't make that mistake again.

[jbinbi]

My comments weren't specifically addressed to you. There have been others on the thread who posted no need for sea trial so was explaining what that was. Others have said , just run the winterized engine on the hard. Easy to say, I am explaining why that is not possible in this region and at this time. Might have been easier to do 3 winters ago.

Many comments from those in other countries, where I assume things are done a bit differently, and are not exactly specific to my original question.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Not sure what you mean ? You can't see the attachment ?

I saw the attachment, and people must pay that much. I was just saying, it is a lot of money per foot but that particular boat must command it. It maybe a deal at 40K. My bad!

[mcon12000]

I purchased my last boat on the hard. We did a thorough survey while on the hard and held $2500 in escrow for any problems found when the boat was splashed.

A broker makes this easier and to be clear I made a full payment of my final accepted offer. The brokerage held the money in escrow.

[epoxyman]

Hello All,
I wrote an article back in 2008 for the magazine SAIL, titled "Buyer Beware ... of the Broker". The boat I purchased on the hard before winter, was intentionally misrepresented by the broker (knew the boat could not be launched until spring), with a known dead transmission (Whitby 42).
The escrow was 10% of the purchase price, which did not begin to cover the repair costs. Long story short, brokers do not have to be honest (neither do owners), so it is buyer beware and I would make sure that the escrow covers significant engine / transmissions repairs ($10-15K), or else make the sea trial happen before closing.

[botanybay]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

This is not complex. You pay to put her back in the water , survey her trial sail etc. You complete the deal or not , and you pay to winterise her.

What’s the problems buyer always pays for survey and associated costs

No need for escrow

Exactly what I did in November some years ago for a boat in the northeast.

Half way through sea trials surveyor catches me below and said "I hope you don't have rose colored glasses, we have significant issues".

I paid to launch, commission, haul, winterize. About $5k in all. Then got back remainder of deposit and kept looking.

Issues showed up only after launch and boat was level. Sad day for everyone...

I would not buy a boat without sea trial unless willing to assume risk yourself.

Even in my clear case it took strong words to get remainder of deposit back.

[Tanqueray]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Hope to be putting in an offer on a boat in MA that will be out of the water before I can it surveyed. So will have no idea if sails go up, engine starts, etc.

What wording do I want in the P&S? Does the money stay escrowed the whole time, or at least a hold back on it?

28' daysailor for 40k.

Thanks,

I bought my first boat (1996 Hunter 280) over the winter 10 years ago. Same concerns as you have…purchase price was $25,500 IIRC. Mine was mast down in a heated warehouse…

I negotiated a hold back in case there were engine issues, etc.

No issues negotiating the holdback (broker put the holdback in escrow).

Seller commissioned the boat in the spring when I asked it to be done, and I signed off on releasing the escrow amount before I sailed away!

I was a bit nervous about the whole deal (first boat and all), but the broker was very professional and the seller reasonable throughout the process.


I bought my second (and current) boat without a broker…but I bought it while the boat was in the water. I hauled it out for a quick inspection before finalizing the deal with the seller.


Good luck! Exciting and nerve-wracking all at the same time!


Greg

[thomm225]

My boat had been on the hard for 5 years when I bought it.

I got it for $2,000 but the engine blew and I replaced it with a new $1500 outboard.

This in 2011.

The pictures in the water are from last weekend and the one of the stern was 2019.

Boat came with all electronics, 5 anchors, dodger, storm jib, autopilot, etc....

[ksuderman]

I have found, that while everyone here is trying their best to be helpful, often people read the first message in a thread, hit the "Reply" button, and respond with answers that you have already addressed. I have my own thread on exactly this topic, and I simply started ignoring the responses that tell me how easy it is to splash the boat for a sea trial; No. It. Is. Not. Maybe in Texas or Greece, but not in NE. I am looking at a boat in a yard that will absolutely not, under any circumstances, or any amount of money, splash a boat this time of year; they are too busy hauling (and likely short staffed as you mention).

Having said that, it is not workers at the yard that will be running the engine for you, that will be the owner and/or his broker. Running the engine on the hard should not be an issue. If it is then that is likely red flag number one and maybe the reason this boat is such a "deal". The broker for the boat I am looking at has no problem running the engine for me (and hasn't even mentioned that I would be responsible for the cost of re-winterizing).

I am still negotiating a hold back amount, but we seem to be settling on 10% of the purchase price. You may want to round that up to $5k, but that should be negotiable with the owner/broker. In my case only the hold back will be in escrow, so I will have already bought the boat and the escrow amount is basically just a reduction in the selling price if problems are found. One thing that was suggested to me, and I think is an excellent idea, is that the purchase agreement list specific conditions that must be met rather than just saying, "the boat passes a sea trial".

One other thing, the current owner has likely already paid for the launch in the spring as winter boat storage fees usually include a round-trip (hauling and launching) so if you can get a survey on the hard you can do the sea trial after the boat is launched on the owner's nickel. Find a reputable surveyor in your area and they will be familiar with the process and will have surveyed dozens (hundreds?) of boats for people in exactly the same situation as we are.

[jbinbi]

Thank you for your response ksud. The broker just called. Offer in on the boat without any survey, or escrow. I won't purchase a boat, even for 40k that visually looked very good without having a survey and having the engine run. I punted.