Cal 36 pilothouse, bluewater really?

[john61ct]

1969 example on eBay, no reserve, currently $4K

Obviously a project, perhaps negative value

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PERFECT-VES...R/113260982255

Please ignore tone of the broker / consignment seller's hyper-florid sales pitch, the guy may be annoying, but is the content generally accurate about this model, say if a better maintained example?

Or does he oversell to the point it's best to just ignore his auctions?

[Fiveslide]

Ick, that should be a free boat. I think I have black mold in my respiratory system from just viewing that ad.

I think he wasted internet space with all those words. I'm watching it now, to see what it actually sells for when he relists it at a lower starting bid.

I think that boat does have a LOT of miles left in it, after a proper refit and cleaning. But, I'm one of these sailors that rarely blame the boat if something goes wrong. I think the vast majority of boats can take more abuse than the people in control of them, with proper maintenance, seamanship and knowledge of when to sail and when to stay in port have much more to do with any boat's successes and failures. There's not a boat out there that can take all mother nature and the oceans have to dish out.

In the proper hands that boat is absolutely capable of great things, but it will cost a lot to get it ready just because of the neglect.

[roverhi]

Some Cals of that vintage had a mild steel fabrication for the keel step. That is prone to corrosion and expensive to replace if it's rusted out. Just something to be aware of.

Other than the too large salon ports, these early Cals have a reputation for being built hell for stout and capable of 'blue water' sailing. Not a boat I'd want to take to high latitudes but then I wouldn't want to go to high latitudes no matter what the boat. The 36 wasn't as successful as the 40 in racing but the design and construction are very similar. The Cal 40 has probably seen more ocean racing miles than any other single design by a factor of 10. Racing is not the ultimate test but racers tend to push the boat till it breaks and these boats have held up.

Not knowing the boat can't comment on what it will take to get it back in shape. From experience, triple your pre-purchase estimate of what it will cost and have double that as a back up for unforseen stuff.

The ad's wording is about as florid as I've heard. The guy should be on TV hawking supplements. He'd have every disease in the world cured by a little pill in no time.

[john61ct]

Yes my feeling too.

Great feedback.

Not "No Reserve" means if one bidder snipes at a dollar more, they get it.

Unfortunately with these they often only let you inspect / survey after paying in full.

But if the seller cares about their rating (if it's a regular income they better), they'll refund everything if you decide to back out, even with non-PayPal transactions.

Usually.

[Adelie]

Daddle who used to own a regular Cal36 indicated no beam under mast when I talked to him about his boat.

Cal40s tended to need buckheads retabbed when raced hard and regularly.

Don’t get me wrong the Cal36 is my dream boat.

[SpillTheWine]

Here's a video I watched a few years ago about a guy in Berkeley who was given a free Cal 40 and then restored it. Remember, a Cal 40 is remembered by a great many people as a near perfect sailboat from any era. It had no bad habits IMO. I lived on one for a year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHGM1B9aJc

You should know this guy restores boats so the 40 was around his 8th complete restoration. Also, this 40 might be in better condition than the less desirable 36 you are considering, will likely be worth more when complete, and was a one-owner boat.

IMO, unless this was your parent's or family boat with the kind of memories you cannot buy then it will surely be something you are losing money on value at a rate of about two or three to one minimum.

Finally, the market is pretty high right now and overdue for a correction. When that happens, and it always does and has already started in some other countries, boats like your 36 will be free. So if you are looking for a cash burn then I suggest you start with a better boat.

Best of luck!

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by SpillTheWine

Finally, the market is pretty high right now and overdue for a correction. When that happens, and it always does and has already started in some other countries, boats like your 36 will be free. So if you are looking for a cash burn then I suggest you start with a better boat.

Best of luck!

"Starting with a better boat" is the key phrase here. No matter what the original attributes, how many years are left in a 50 year old, clearly hard-ridden "good old boat"?

[TrentePieds]

Hello John,

Somehow I have the impression that you've been ashore for a while :-)

Your query distills to a simple one: “Is the boat, as a type, any good for offshore work?” That question is independent of the question of whether it is wise to buy on e-bay. My opinion of the latter is somewhat jaundiced, but of the former, I think this.

Designer: First rate. Knew what he was about. Her basic numbers are good, so you can expect a well-sailing and generally tractable boat. In the hands of a competent skipper, that boat will go anywhere.

Hull integrity: Can't know it without getting upclose'n'personal. IF you could inspect before plunking down the cash, you would know. I think you do know how to do a hull survey. But you can't inspect, and that's the stubling block: IF the hull should prove beyond repair, YOU would be stuck with the disposal cost. Or with the insalubrious task of finding a poor benighted novice who'd take 'er off your hands. Is that the task on which the present seller is engaged? I'm such a damn cynic :-)!

Rigging: Luvverly sailplan that will handle anything, if you have the full suit. Looking at the single exterior pic given, it looks as if she's unsullied by such things as roller furling. Depending on what you want to do with her, and where you are gonna do it, that may very well be a blessing in your day-to-day life. Remember Occam's Razor :-)!

Engine: Ho-hum. Long in the tooth and I'd not take the seller's word for its condition. But with an entrance fee of only $4K you can aford to spend US$22K for a 50HP Beta (Kubota) if you are gonna go worldwide. If you can do the swap yourself, $17K should do it and you'll be set up for life. I think the A4 was 30HP, but the cost differential twixt 30 and 50 ain't much.

Electrics: Probably primitive, and in this particular boat at the end of their service life. But don't let me teach my mother to suck eggs ;-0)!

Accommodations: Love 'em. TrentePieds is laid out in just the same way, and the “pilot house”, which ain't a pilot house for want of an inside steering position, is a delight to BE in because of the big windows. There is not the usual sense of being in a cave. A lovely “snug” once you are on the hook. The Cal is six fee longer OA than TP but only 2 feet longer on the WL. Thus the Cal will sail better than TP. The downside of the windows is that I wouln't go where the scattered waters rave without blanking them with S/S plates. You already know how that's done.

Outfit: You get to keep what's useful to YOU, and buy new stuff to replace what isn't. At 4K you needn't cringe every time you scupper some old junk that “came with the boat” :-)

So – IMO a great candidate for a man who knows his way about, the only problem being that of dealing on e-bay!

Cheers

TP

[john61ct]

Thanks much.

To be clear I'm not planning on buying this boat.

My main query was on this **model** boat in general, and more so this seller, as he does come across some great instances once in a while, but in this case I suspected his hyperbole was just complete and total bulldust.

Which seems not to be the case after all.

And I have pretty deep eBay experience, so believe I can navigate its pitfalls, at least enough to bend the odds in my favor when gambling there.

Getting the seller to accept PayPal is an important point. I let them know they can retain possession for as long as it takes the cash to clear, and in fact that delay lets me get a more thorough inspection done, if not an actual survey.

[roverhi]

[QUOTE=SpillTheWine;2727894]Here's a video I watched a few years ago about a guy in Berkeley who was given a free Cal 40 and then restored it. Remember, a Cal 40 is remembered by a great many people as a near perfect sailboat from any era. It had no bad habits IMO. I lived on one for a year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHGM1B9aJc

You should know this guy restores boats so the 40 was around his 8th complete restoration. Also, this 40 might be in better condition than the less desirable 36 you are considering, will likely be worth more when complete, and was a one-owner boat.

This guy is not your average do it yourself boat restorer. The owner is Schaefer Marine. If you aren't familiar with them, they are right up there with Harken, Lewmar etc as one of, if not the largest supplier of marine hardware. Not only does he have the bucks to do the job but can custom fabricate practically any part for the boat if they don't already have it on the shelf. A boatyard with all the skilled labor and equipment did the actual work on the boat. It wasn't actually a rebuild but a better than new, no expense spared remanufacturing of the old girl into way better than new condition. I wouldn't be surprised if it cost more, way more than a 100 boat units to get it back in the water.

Personally think they went a bit over the top on the boat but who cares, it's only money.

[AiniA]

Interesting that it is called a pilot house since you can't pilot from within the house. More accurate to call it a deck saloon in modern terms. Might make for an interesting boat but a labour of love for sure since it would make no financial sense to refit.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by AiniA

it would make no financial sense to refit.

if you mean for resale value, of course, can never count on that.

But if one has a total budget of say $25,000

Starting with a structurally sound $3,000 boat, good sails and engine, most systems work just fine

and having $20+K to invest in the cleaning up / upfitting, electrical work etc

Compared to looking for a supposedly turnkey example for that $20+K

you may well come out ahead.

Certainly will have more things the way you want them, and will be much more intimate with the boat.

And if 10K is all you have to get started, and won't be able to sail for a few years, earning more money in the meantime, pretty much the only way to get started on The Project.

[TrentePieds]

I am absolutely with you John! A sensible man cuts his coat to suit his cloth :-)

The great merit of frozen snot over all other hull construction materials is that frozen snot hulls last forever and never sink unless you - the boat keeper - do something remarkably stupid. So what you get here for the three or four grand is an everlasting hull effectively just as viable as a brand new "bare hull" out of a factory.

Fitting out of a second hand hare hull as a DIY project is no more difficult or expensive than fitting out a brand new one, so in a 36-footer the savings on this hull over a factory-new equivalent is something like 80 grand.

But because with this "new to you" job you can go sailing NOW, not years from now. So you have to live with a little mould - so what? Vinegar and bleach go a long way!

The dome light outside the heads doesn't come on - so what? If you can't find your way to the heads in the dark in a 36-footer, you prolly shouldn't even THINK about going to sea :-)!

You see rust bleeds where the chain plates are bolted to the bulkhead - so what? Just don't push too hard, and if Rude Boreas gets on his high horse, shorten sail and find shelter!

There is no chart plotter - so what? You don't need a chart plotter to go coast-wise. Just the relevant paper charts, a coupla triangles and a pair of dividers. Also a pencil, of course. Hand bearing compass? You don't need it. Swing the boat's head to your mark and read the steering compass. You are not going anywhere in a hurry anyway. The radio is an antique SSB - so what? A brand new VHF (which is what you really need) is a-hunnert'n'an'arf at any chandler's.

This particular boat is advertised as having moorage available at 150/mnth. Can't beat that with a stick if the location is near where you live. In West Vancouver, if you can find any, it would cost you five hunnert.

A fundamental truth (in most of life's affairs) that "yotties" seem particularly apt to forget, is that for 20% of the expenditure in effort and money required to reach "perfection", you get 80% thereof. In regard to sailboats, diminishing returns set in the moment you spend your first dollar, and the expenditure curve goes asymptotic at that time too.

I know I don't need to tell you, but there might be sense in making such matters abundantly clear to novices and to those who are still only dreaming. I look at the glossy sailing mags now and then when I feel the urge to get disgusted. The advertising in reprehensible. It gives the naïve the notion that they need to spend money. It ain't necessarily so!

Cheers!

TrentePieds

[john61ct]

Yes, thanks for helping my confidence (never certitude) with my current trajectory.

I am pretty sure finding the odds of finding "the perfect turnkey" at $20,000 are pretty slim anyway, would likely still need serious additional money to get ready for offshore passage making anyway.

[Don C L]

Sure, didn’t turn out to be as popular as the 28 or 40, but petty darn good pedigree and vintage. I like the pilot house too, if the big windows bother you can bolt on thick plexiglas and they’ll take a hit ok. But bluewater? Well if the 28 and 40 have shown they can rack up plenty of bluewater miles i’d bet the 36 is right there with them. I’d give it a bath make sure sails and rigging are ok and sail, BUT the big question for this one is, how’s the engine? Figure it’s dead so there’s $10k or so if you do it yourself if you want a new one. I knew a guy who had a Cal 40 with no engine. It was nimble enough to sail wherever he wanted to go.