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rmbriggs · 30-06-2020, 13:57

These comparison threads always stimulate good discussions. I’m looking at a Caliber 40 or Valiant 42 as a Chesapeake Bay and Caribbean cruiser and, in a year or two, a long range blue water cruiser. Considerations are single or short hand sailing, easy access/low maintenance, and resale value in 5-7 years. Thanks everyone.

Tayana42 · 30-06-2020, 14:00

If you are thinking of the Caliber 40 LRC and the Valiant 42 you should also look at the Tayana 42 which has similar canoe body, similar keel and rudder configuration, a cutter rig and a similarly strong reputation.

**roverhi** · 30-06-2020, 14:11

I'd go with the Caliber 40LRC because it doesn't have a canoe stern. The canoe stern is a fashion statement that makes no sense and seriously what you can do with the stern area

**Jim Cate** · 30-06-2020, 16:35

^^^^^

Have to agree with the above. The Valiants have a good rep in the cruising world, but a flat transom has so many advantages of a practical nature that I prefer such to any sort of double ender shape.

Jim

rmbriggs · 30-06-2020, 18:45

I appreciate the opinions. Do any owners have a comment on how difficult the Caliber or Valiant are to back in reverse compared to a full keel boat like the island Packet? Neither of the boats I’m looking at have a bow thruster.

**Jammer** · 30-06-2020, 19:39

Caliber 40 LRC has unusually large tank capacity due to the use of molded-in fiberglass tanks that are part of the hull

Caliber 40 LRC has, as pointed out upthread, a transom stern and a swim step

The navigation desk on the Caliber is located right next to the stove so you will get bacon grease on your laptop or paper charts, as the case may be; also, there is very little legroom beneath it.

Caliber layout below decks is pretty much standardized while the Valiants vary with three basic floorplans and endless customization. Generally the Calibers are set up with two heads which is a tight fit in a boat this size and results in compromises elsewhere (such as the nav desk)

Valiant has a V-drive which means that the shaft log and some other driveline parts are difficult to access.

Due to the design's place in history, Valiants tend to command a premium price compared to Caliber and other functionally similar boats.

The valiant used rod rigging originally and most still have it while the Caliber uses conventional wire rope rigging

sailing_gal · 01-07-2020, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmbriggs

I appreciate the opinions. Do any owners have a comment on how difficult the Caliber or Valiant are to back in reverse compared to a full keel boat like the island Packet? Neither of the boats I’m looking at have a bow thruster.

In that size boat, of that weight, I think I would add into my budget the price of installing a bow thruster. I own an IP 420, and I can dock her, in reverse, without the bow thruster (just takes practice) but that bow thruster comes in mighty handy. How well the boat backs is a matter of multiple issues- what kind of prop you have and just plain experience. A Max Prop will help eliminate some of the prop walk you would otherwise have. Various props on the market will help you with better power in reverse, etc. So, hard to say. If at all possible, try to get a day cruise on a Caliber or Valiant if you know someone who owns one, and check it out yourself.

Suijin · 01-07-2020, 10:18

I own a Valiant 40, have done long passages on a few Valiant 42s (same hull mold, with modernizations over the 40), and have been on a few Calibre 40 LRCs. Some thoughts:

The Valiant is the better built boat. It's a tank. In a heavy sea you won't hear a squeak or groan from anywhere on the boat, any of the cabinetry. The Calibre is still a well built boat but the fit and finish is not comparable to the 42. This is one reason why Valiants command the prices that they do. That said, 42 prices have taken a substantial hit in the past few years. Whether they now constitute a good value is a matter of subjective opinion.

The canoe stern has a few advantages and a few disadvantages. Advantages are virtually no hull wave slap at anchor, and extremely good behavior on a deep reach in a following sea. They track *extremely* well, but still with adequate buoyancy. Also, for a solo sailor, you're in a bit of a manageably sized "cocoon" which I find just about perfect. The round stern rail provides a nice backrest for any position you might like.

Disadvantages are significant, and they all come at anchor. No easy peasy walk through to your dinghy, no swim platform, and no lazarette. The two cockpit lockers are cavernous, but behind the helm there are two 20lb. propane tank lockers.

As mentioned there are three interior layouts for the 42. The most desired, in part because there are fewer of them, are the pullman berth variety. Very nice layout. I think most 42s are center entry with queen bunks in the bow. The aft cabin is small and a bit short on ventilation.

They both back in reverse like pretty much any other fin-keeled boat with a skeg hung rudder. I.E., they pull to port, and won't back to starboard unless you get way on and throttle back. You learn to use it to your advantage. For example, you can spin the boat clockwise 360 degrees in little more than it's own length. A MaxProp, which I believe was virtually standard on the 42, makes this pretty easy.

The Valiants are super easy to single-hand for a number of reasons. The small cockpit with whatever lines you want led back to the cockpit is a big part of it. Everything is within reach with a step or two. Second, the flat deck and flat coachroof provide a very secure deck experience when you have to go forward. The true cutter rig on the Valiants gives you a very manageable sailplan with a moderately sized main, high cut yankee, and staysail. The V42 has a taller rig than the 40 but it's still very manageable.

The V42 has NO wood on deck. All the hardware is first-rate, and I believe all the stainless, like the stanchions and pulpits are electro passivated. All I know is all the 316 stainless I've added in the past few years to support solar panels and devices gets much more surface rust I have to deal with.

I think maintenance for the boats is comparable, although I had the following experience. A few years ago I did a deck refit, and stripped every last bit of hardware off the deck. My boat was over 30 years old and there was not a single case of bedding having failed. I had to pull the whole interior head panels down and not only was it easy, but it revealed how well the boat is built in areas you can't usually see. They are well known for having access for maintenance "built-in" as a consideration and for the most part my experience supports that.

The 42 is going to be the faster boat by a hair, not because it's 42 (it's not, that's the bowsprit) but because of it's displacement/length. It's also going to point higher, at least when you let out the staysail.

Honestly I don't think you can go wrong with either boat. That said, if you have the opportunity to actually sail on each of them before making your decision that would be a good move.

Scubaseas · 01-07-2020, 10:32

Caliber may have tank issues. Valiant may have blister issues. I'd also look at Tayana V42 but I'm also a fellow V42 owner. Downwind with a big following sea you can't beat a canoe stern. Is it worth the loss of space? For me yes, for most people probably not.

Jaqun · 01-07-2020, 10:45

Be aware when looking at them that Some Calibers 40's have delamination issues in the forward holding tanks due to clogged vents. see the Practical Sailor review.

robert sailor · 01-07-2020, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

Caliber may have tank issues. Valiant may have blister issues. I'd also look at Tayana V42 but I'm also a fellow V42 owner. Downwind with a big following sea you can't beat a canoe stern. Is it worth the loss of space? For me yes, for most people probably not.

Both lovely boats but I think your buying into a myth about canoe sterns and following seas, just no support for that idea.

robert sailor · 01-07-2020, 11:20

Both stick built boats built to a purpose. Valiant is more eye candy and in my view has prettier lines. I'm not a lover of canoe sterns, simply a marketing ploy used back in the day and Perry will be the first to admit it. Too many draw backs. They are sort of pretty in their own way.
I think I'd probably make my decision based on what was available when I was shopping. If there was an outstanding example of either boat then I'd be prone to probably buy it. The difference between the two is not that large. Either would suit a couple just fine. Perry's earlier designs all had smaller cockpits..not an issue for 2 people doing passages but if you see yourself as a highly social person that small cockpit might be an issue when having guests over. The Caliber isnt a standout in design, it's fine nothing wrong with it but it's not a standout. The layout is very workable below so no issues there, nice boat. Two good choices to compare.

**YachtBroker** · 01-07-2020, 12:17

If you want to consider a Valiant, do consider the Pacific Seacraft 40. It's WAY better boat in all the systems and design. Nothing wrong with a V40, but unless you're looking at one of the very last ones made it doesn't have the plumbing, wiring and systems that the PS had from day one. Also Perry designed the PS 40 in his early years. Crealock designed the PS40 in his end years and there was a ton of design work and previous PS 34-47-44 owners input into designing it.

gonesail · 01-07-2020, 12:32

I would look for a non LRC Caliber since you will never need that much tankage. the Caliber nav station is cramped and almost an afterthought. the bilges are very shallow and sometimes you see wet bulkheads from water sloshing out. the pullman berth might be too small for a couple. the Caliber is easier to back due to lack of full keel. the walk thru transom is nice. Many Calibers are sailed on the Chesapeake. I would consider the Crealock 40 and the Robinhood 40 as well.