Car Restoration vs Sailboat Restoration

[Jolly Roger]

I also have done both. Here is a picture of my latest restoration, (more at www.newworld-celebration.com/rolls.html) which I want to now sell to help buy a boat. When it comes down to it, it’s up to the individual. For instance the most enjoyable thing I did on the Rolls was the internal woodwork. Tasmanian Myrtle, all black and scruffy and over varnished, but with a lot of TLC it came back in pristine condition and looking, and smelling gorgeous.
So I look forward to working in wood on a boat again, this time in teak. Both projects give satisfaction and pleasure, so what is money if not for such things.

[Chipg]

Originally Posted by titan1969

I want to sail for the relaxation. I restored cars and raced sportbikes for years and I just want to slow down a bit...or a lot depending on how you look at it.

Close on the motor. 440 with 8-71 BDS blower. Made 780hp on the dyno
I could leave the car standing still though with my Turbo'd Hayabusa ( 217mph...and it got there very quick! )

Can't believe you stopped short of putting nitris on it re: turbo Hyabusa

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Marine parts are more expensive than car parts because the market believes that sailors are rich..... stick to fixing up cars and enjoying sailing where the only red lights are the weather ones

Have not restored many antique cars lately have you..

If you are looking to do a show quality restoration, using NOS parts, it can run you a ton of money. I've restored a bunch of Porsche 356's with my father, it's what he collects, and I can assure you that cars can dwarf the costs of boats, of course boats are NOT cheap either.

My father is just finishing up another one which he will have over 25k just in paint/body work & perhaps 20-25k in the interior mechanical gets very expensive. When all is said and done he will have about 125-140k+ into this resto and the car was in very, very nice shape before he even started..

Like anything either can be VERY expensive depending upon your level of quality desired. If you're not picky, and satisfied with Maaco level work, you can restore either a boat or a car on the cheap but you'll get what you pay for.

Restoring boats requires an entirely new skill set. While much of what you learn from doing cars can be applied, boats are different..

This resto was also big bucks all NOS and a numbers matching car..

[Chipg]

Nice!

[TaoJones]

I don't if you have strong feelings about the Bumfuzzle Bums, Ali and Pat Schulte, one way or the other, Maine Sail. But here's a link to a section of their website you might find interesting, even if all you do is look at the pics of one sweet, old Porsche 356: bumfuzzle | porsche family time

TaoJones

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

Have not restored many antique cars lately have you..

If you are looking to do a show quality restoration, using NOS parts, it can run you a ton of money. I've restored a bunch of Porsche 356's with my father, it's what he collects, and I can assure you that cars can dwarf the costs of boats, of course boats are NOT cheap either.

My father is just finishing up another one which he will have over 25k just in paint/body work & perhaps 20-25k in the interior mechanical gets very expensive. When all is said and done he will have about 125-140k+ into this resto and the car was in very, very nice shape before he even started..

Like anything either can be VERY expensive depending upon your level of quality desired. If you're not picky, and satisfied with Maaco level work, you can restore either a boat or a car on the cheap but you'll get what you pay for.

Restoring boats requires an entirely new skill set. While much of what you learn from doing cars can be applied, boats are different..

This resto was also big bucks all NOS and a numbers matching car..

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

I don't know if you have strong feelings about the Bumfuzzle Bums, Ali and Pat Schulte, one way or the other, Maine Sail. But here's a link to a section of their website you might find interesting, even if all you do is look at the pics of one sweet, old Porsche 356: bumfuzzle | porsche family time

TaoJones

Actually I kind of like those two. I think my dad actually knows them too. He also did the Great Race only in a very, very rare 1949 Volkswagen Hebmueler. Though he did not win the rookie class he did quite well. Congrats to those two for winning the rookie class as that is one tough race.

That is a cool adventure their taking in the 356. My dad actually drives his cars all over the place and usually does one or two cross country trips each year. He really despises trailer queens, though he admittedly does have a couple he just won't drive more than a hundred or so miles per year..

[boden36]

We have a variety of vintage cars, and a yacht. We do all the maintenance. The crucial thing to remember is that you own the cars, but the boat owns you! Regards, Richard.

[knottybuoyz]

Originally Posted by titan1969

For those who have restored cars and boats how do they compare?

A lot of the skills transfer over but as has been said boats are more complicated, are harder to work on (imagine standing on your head in the bilge trying to torque the heads back on the engine). I've done a lot of work on our old powerboat and the IROC. Both were rewarding and educational projects.

Originally Posted by titan1969

Since I have a lot of auto background and ZERO sailing background am I just better off buying a decent sailable boat and forgetting the resto dream, if I really want to sail?

Restoring a boat is a much bigger (in all regards) project. I think Paul summed it up. Think first. Impulse purchases of either cars or boats can sink you, literally. Yes I know that from experience.

PS. They would have had to pry the steering wheel from my cold dead hands before I'd give up a 780 HP big block MOPAR! Are you nutzzz?

I once had a '70 340 Six Pack Duster and regret letting it go every day for the last 35 yrs.

I gave up my '87 IROC back when the kid came along (car seat wouldn't fit). I regretted doing that but found another this spring. It was in need of a lot of TLC but we're continuing the restoration.

[S&S]

Originally Posted by titan1969

Would a 1968 Cal 36 sailboat resto be as rewarding? I of course would like to be able to sail it 1-2 years after purchase. I would plan on keeping it for many years....hopefuly 10+ to recoup my efforts.

Since I have a lot of auto background and ZERO sailing background am I just better off buying a decent sailable boat and forgetting the resto dream, if I really want to sail?

thanks for any advice...

You're kidding ,right? I don't know about the relative costs for restoring 'glass boats, but I know there's this whole 'classic boat' thing going that is similar to car shows etc.
The buy in price is steep and the resto costs are astronomical. They're usually powerboats though- Trumpy, Elco etc.

Like this:

1971 Trumpy Classic Motor Yacht Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Not my cup-o-tea.

Or runabouts like this:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1937.../United-States

I don't think there'a any "concours d'elegance" thing for sailboats.

[Pblais]

S&S,

I already assumed you wouldn't consider wood. Wood adds so many more issues plus all the rest. There is a reason since sinking in the slip and being stuck with $60,000 salvage bill (happened to a 3 masted boat I saw). Any boat more than 25 years old should be approached with caution and a 3rd party holding your checkbook. If you are thinking wood have your wife shoot you in the leg to at least slow you down.

Really old boats are rare for a reason! Boat restoration compared to cars are are so off the scale it will break you and your whole family. Some poeple do have a talent and the dscipline to do them, but if you have never done a boat that was easy (none are) you are not prepared for the work and effort involved in the research and costs alone. That would be assuming you were young enough to do all the work.

[S&S]

Originally Posted by Pblais

S&S,

I already assumed you wouldn't consider wood. Wood adds so many more issues plus all the rest. There is a reason since sinking in the slip and being stuck with $60,000 salvage bill (happened to a 3 masted boat I saw). Any boat more than 25 years old should be approached with caution and a 3rd party holding your checkbook. If you are thinking wood have your wife shoot you in the leg to at least slow you down.

Really old boats are rare for a reason! Boat restoration compared to cars are are so off the scale it will break you and your whole family. Some poeple do have a talent and the dscipline to do them, but if you have never done a boat that was easy (none are) you are not prepared for the work and effort involved in the research and costs alone. That would be assuming you were young enough to do all the work.

I agree with your post, but I don't see why it's directed to me?
Our boat is wood (and I believe I'm dissuading him from trying to get into the "classic boat" circuit). One in good shape requires consistent upkeep, but not an inordinate amount of work- one in bad shape is a whole 'nother story.

Restoring a boat (wood or otherwise) in poor condition is NOT for the newbie who "wants to get into sailing". Too may folks have high ideals when they start only to not be able to see the project through and the material can exacerbate the problem- it's a long process (ask Charlie Cobra). Often you see their half finished projects up for sale.

[titan1969]

Originally Posted by S&S

Too may folks have high ideals when they start only to not be able to see the project through and the material can exacerbate the problem- it's a long process (ask Charlie Cobra). Often you see their half finished projects up for sale.

I must agree, based on my numerous car resto's. Many of life challenges seem to have a romantic start...like a one night stand. Then in the morning, things look a little different.

Im taking the knowledgeable people on here and going the lightly used or well maintained route, with a survey, to start my sailing adventures.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by titan1969

For those who have restored cars and boats how do they compare?
I bought a junk yard dog ( 1971 Dodge Challenger ) for $600. Spent $45000 restoring it and sold it for $25,000 12 years after the junkyard purchase. Now that would be a big financial loss but I drove it for 10 years after the restoration and had a blast!!! It was well worth the 2 years of blood, sweat and tears working on it. I entered car shows and get a lot of praise for the before and after photos I displayed. I did all the work on the car (except final paint and engine rebuild which I dont trust myself reading a book to do properly ).

Would a 1968 Cal 36 sailboat resto be as rewarding? I of course would like to be able to sail it 1-2 years after purchase. I would plan on keeping it for many years....hopefuly 10+ to recoup my efforts.

Since I have a lot of auto background and ZERO sailing background am I just better off buying a decent sailable boat and forgetting the resto dream, if I really want to sail?

thanks for any advice...

I dunno; if you were happy spending $45k PLUS working your azz off for years then selling for $25k -- then you will be VERY happy with boats. Because it will be MORE OF THE SAME. I spent some years of my life restoring cars, and I regret it. A lot of hours down the drain which would better have been spent earning money and spending it on car already in good condition. Somewhat fun sometimes, but not worth it at that cost.

Personally I would avoid that route. As someone here said, every boat is a permanent restoration project anyway. Even one in supposedly perfect condition, as certified by the best surveyor in England, bought for half a million bucks, will immediately cost you tens of thousands of unexpected dollars. I am here to tell you, on the basis of recent experience. How to deal with one which is already a restoration project -- I can't even imagine. I would, if I were you, get one which you can sail from day one, not two years out. You will have PLENTY of repairs to keep you happy, believe me! At least then, you can actually sail it once and a while, between repairs.

[S&S]

Originally Posted by titan1969

Im taking the knowledgeable people on here and going the lightly used or well maintained route, with a survey, to start my sailing adventures.

Good choice.

[kevingy]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Marine parts are more expensive than car parts because the market believes that sailors are rich.

While I agree that the market believes that sailors are rich, I don't agree that's the reason that marine parts are more expensive than car parts. IMO, it's mostly economies of scale. Ford has built roughly 375,000 Tauruses per year between inception in 1986 and 2007. That's 7.5 MILLION Ford Tauruses in the first 20 years. Compare that to the venerable Catalina 22. In the ("original") Catalina 22's first 17 years (1969-1986), only about 13,000 had been built. (My Catalina 22 is older than my wife.)

If you are a part manufacturer building parts for just the Ford Taurus, you have millions of potential customers. You can build a warehouse full of parts and wait for the orders to come in. You can afford to make less on each part due to the volume of sales. If you're a part manufacturer building parts for Catalina 22's, you have thousands of potential customers. So, each part is built in a smaller batch at a higher cost per part, and fewer of them are stored.

Sure, there are few parts that apply to only one boat. However, sailors are very picky customers - from choice of specifications, materials, appearance, intended use, and more. In many cases, it's not enough to ask for part X in stainless steel. The grade of stainless steel needs to be specified. If you're out there looking for that one part that suits your sailing needs perfectly, you may be one of hundreds or thousands (rather than millions) in the same market. You'll pay for having a custom part made, at least in comparison to the auto part manufacturers.

If a Toyota Camry came with winches, winches would cost $100 each and be electric, push-button, computer-controlled, auto-everything, and, under warranty, work perfectly for 10 years and 100,000 miles.