Center Cockpit Pilot House - after 2 years of search still need advice!

[Ibetitsthisway]

I like the camper 48 Design! My type of boat :-)

But setting in the salon is too low.
Now view

[Capdave360]

Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway

I like the camper 48 Design! My type of boat :-)

But setting in the salon is too low.
Now view

So you're not really looking for a pilothouse boat, you're looking for an enclosed wheelhouse/salon boat - pretty different design mission. Way fewer choices too.....Nauticat and Fisher are the main production brands. Lots of custom boats, but tough at your price point. Southerly maybe, but out of your price range....

You should recheck the Moody Carbineer 46 - you also said the seating was too low on that one, but I've been on one and the view out is pretty good.

Good luck with your search!

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway

Motiva 51 in germany?
There is one Called 47. But it is actually a 46!
Anything Else i dont know of.

The feltz? The 3? i have visited. Way to expensive for the condition.
Not my Liking.

Sorry, yes, the Motiva 47. The listing says the overall length is 51ft, I guess that is with the bowsprit and swim platform. And yes, the Feltz Scorpion 3, which it says is 47ft long. It's hard to tell from listing photos, but the condition looks pretty decent. Obviously an in person visit reveals more.

Honestly, I'm not sure you're going to find what you want for under 200k. You've been looking for 2 years, and your wish list is pretty specific. The biggest problem is the center cockpit pilothouse design. That is very unusual, and generally requires a larger boat, which usually means more money. Then you want a true pilothouse with interior helm station AND raised seating with good visibility. This is also very uncommon because it reduces interior space. Deck saloon designs with lowered seating areas are much more common because it creates a higher volume salon area. On top of that, you want a high level of maintenance/condition for less than 200k. I had a very similar list when I started looking a couple years ago, and I've been continuously looking at what's on the market for that time period, and even after I bought my boat. To get close to what I wanted, I had to increase my budget and compromise on some of my must-have features. I'm very happy with the boat I ended up buying, but it's not my perfect dream boat, and I ended up spending a good deal more than I initially wanted to. To get closer to what my dream boat is, based on what I've seen on the market over the last couple years, I would have to be willing to spend 2 or even 3 times as much as I did for my Farr 50.

[Capdave360]

Here you go - never seen one before, but I think it checks most of your boxes:

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/86647

[Muaddib1116]

Looks like a pretty small, very aft cockpit.

[Capdave360]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Looks like a pretty small, very aft cockpit.

Well you don't get both an enclosed wheelhouse/salon and a big outside cockpit in a boat under 50'. Not enough feet! The Nauticat design trick is the raised aft deck which makes the outside space seem large since it's full beam.

All boats are compromises. If you don't compromise, you don't sail. The trick is to understand your "gotta haves" and your "nice to haves", and make sure you aren't kidding yourself with a set of "gotta haves" that simply don't exist in one basket. Otherwise you're just another tirekicker.......

And the aft cockpit doesn't look really that small either:

http://www.tayanaworld.com/Yachts_Ov...3-32a1c4685aa3

[Muaddib1116]

Yeah, I brought up that point in my previous post. I think if the OP is serious in finding a boat with a pilothouse design, he's going to have to compromise either his "needs" or his budget.

[Capdave360]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Yeah, I brought up that point in my previous post. I think if the OP is serious in finding a boat with a pilothouse design, he's going to have to compromise either his "needs" or his budget.

And the aft cockpit doesn't really look that small

Tayana | Tayana Yachts Official Website

On paper that's a really well equipped boat in his price range, in Europe....

[Muaddib1116]

Maybe it's that helm chair in the middle of the cockpit that makes it look small to me. The Tayana site has a helm pedestal there instead.

[Ibetitsthisway]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Sorry, yes, the Motiva 47. The listing says the overall length is 51ft, I guess that is with the bowsprit and swim platform. And yes, the Feltz Scorpion 3, which it says is 47ft long. It's hard to tell from listing photos, but the condition looks pretty decent. Obviously an in person visit reveals more.

Honestly, I'm not sure you're going to find what you want for under 200k. You've been looking for 2 years, and your wish list is pretty specific. The biggest problem is the center cockpit pilothouse design. That is very unusual, and generally requires a larger boat, which usually means more money. Then you want a true pilothouse with interior helm station AND raised seating with good visibility. This is also very uncommon because it reduces interior space. Deck saloon designs with lowered seating areas are much more common because it creates a higher volume salon area. On top of that, you want a high level of maintenance/condition for less than 200k. I had a very similar list when I started looking a couple years ago, and I've been continuously looking at what's on the market for that time period, and even after I bought my boat. To get close to what I wanted, I had to increase my budget and compromise on some of my must-have features. I'm very happy with the boat I ended up buying, but it's not my perfect dream boat, and I ended up spending a good deal more than I initially wanted to. To get closer to what my dream boat is, based on what I've seen on the market over the last couple years, I would have to be willing to spend 2 or even 3 times as much as I did for my Farr 50.

I know - budget and checklist make it a bit more difficult... but hey... if it were easy everbody would do it

Right now the "corona boat rally" in europe has led to higher prices and reduced offer qty. People want to socially distance on their boats. I would assume that this will swing to the opposite, when corona is "gone" - well... if herd immunity is achieved... however that was done...

I am not in a hurry.
despite that we have not been looking for 2 years for this combination - as with many buyers ....our list "evolved" and we changed our mind the more boats we have seen and I am pretty sure there are many boats out there with their owners beeing "motivated" to sell.

[CaptainRivet]

Have a look at Koopmans from NL. Very good go anywhere boats in steel or AL. My Favorite is the Koopmans 43 pilothouse ketch, surveyed 2,made an offer on asking price and both got bought unseen by another party above asking price... Prices at around 130-160k for a good one. be fast and ready to compromise a bit... was looking for the same then you.

My surveyor pulled his magic card and organized me a 39ft Vilm 2 from 1984 in prestine condition for a steal price...a tank made out of 5cm thick GRP with the center consits out of cooper wire pressed to 15mm thick mats and filled up with epoxy. Longkeeler, ketch and only 145cm draft. Best of both worlds. Maintenance of a grp hull but stability of an Al/Steel boat.
normally it has a hard doger going far aft. Former owner made a pilot house by an Italian boat yard, was 5K due to the bills/documents. Ticks all your boxes, only one head and a locker front is missing... Well for 50k instead of my 150k budget i can live with this 😊

[MAJICDAN]

I could not find a center cockpit pilot house boat.
I bought a 1974 center cockpit Gulfstar 53 Ketch and had a pilot house built from aluminum.

[Ibetitsthisway]

I know VILM. did not know about this hull building technique. wow - sounds weired - but solid. will look at.

we also thought about having a PH custom made.

Thats the next thing to consider. pay to have a boat "sail ready", pay half for a boat with "work" or pay 1USD for a boat with problems and take 2 years to fix them?

the last option makes it 100% your boat - with knowing every screw by name. Can be an advantage when in remote areas.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway

I know VILM. did not know about this hull building technique. wow - sounds weired - but solid. will look at.

we also thought about having a PH custom made.

Thats the next thing to consider. pay to have a boat "sail ready", pay half for a boat with "work" or pay 1USD for a boat with problems and take 2 years to fix them?

the last option makes it 100% your boat - with knowing every screw by name. Can be an advantage when in remote areas.

Well I would recommend to cluster your list in absolute top 5 must have and rest.
2nd chose the smallest size you can live with, cost go up exponentially.
3rd I recommend a ketch, in the 40-45 all rigging of main is of a roughly 33-35ft boat size and super cheap (yes when adding the small Mizzen it is still cheaper then what a 45ft would need) all so small that even one person can handle all manual, carry sail to sail maker etc. chandler even on islands have it in stock as cheap and local day sailors have this sizes too.

then buy a boat that fits that and go sailing as soon as you can. Own my VILM2 since January and my list changed completely when you actually sail and live aboard. only my top 3 didn’t change but my surveyors top 10 list is now right after my top 3, he knows his stuff and what really counts...

I could sell my Vilm anytime for what I bought it or maybe 10k less if a really fast sale is needed. yes a compromise as every sailboat but I am sailing and not traveling for boat shopping, being frustrated by the next polished lemon and throwing money out of the window...still have 100k cash so if my dream boat is for sale somewhere on the way around the world and maybe hugely discounted due to remote location I can go for it immediately. If not ok too. Also a total game changer to have the piece of mind if getting demasted or engine collapses (which just has 2200h on original 1st engine, a Volvo 62hp md30A, so highly unlikely) is not a financial desaster .

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway

I know VILM. did not know about this hull building technique. wow - sounds weired - but solid. will look at.

we also thought about having a PH custom made.

Thats the next thing to consider. pay to have a boat "sail ready", pay half for a boat with "work" or pay 1USD for a boat with problems and take 2 years to fix them?

the last option makes it 100% your boat - with knowing every screw by name. Can be an advantage when in remote areas.

Also playing with idea of adding on my own PH but the basic should already be very close.
Check this combination. Maybe You like it
Sometimes You can negociate a good deal and most of the times they are very well maintained.
Reading she sounds close to ready to sail and then You take care of the rest of PH enclosure on the way,

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...esign-3684998/