Center Cockpits: pros and cons

[hpeer]

We have a 33’ aft cockpit and a 44’ center cockpit and are very happy with both boats, we use the boats differently and they each meet their use case.

It is difficult to do this kind of comparison because there are fairly large differences between center cockpits and also between people. For example Jim Cates comments about the aft cabin being a waste of space where you do not spend waking time. That is 100% accurate for that couple, we however find having a DIFFERENT space, not connected to our waking activities, very important and we have enough space for waking activities. Just the difference between two couples.

We were recently docked near a 44’ Hunter CC. Her cockpit sole was 18” higher than ours. That means that much more roll in the cockpit even if the boats both have the same tendency to roll, they don’t. That was one of several “features” that turned me off to that boat.

We live on the hook, so water noise on the transom almost never occurs. But even when we have it at dock it is a gentle lapping. We see other big arsed flat bottom boats that slam even in anchor. That is not a CC problem but a hull shape issue, made worse if you sleep aft.

We don’t have a swim platform, and that is a problem for water access, swimming. We have a PortaBoat as a dink, not a rib with big round tubes. Consequently dink access is very easy for us. Our boarding gate is at the center of longitudinal motion, because we don’t have tubes we need only step UP not OUT AND UP. So we pull up to the center of the boat, where the boat motion is minimum, and step up on a hanging step and onto the deck. I stay in the dink and pass groceries, etc. to my Wife behind lifelines. Very simple and safe. We find when there is any wave action access boats over a swim platform MUCH more difficult and dangerous with that platform going up and down.

Our boat is laid out so that most essential activities occur near the longitudinal center line of motion where motion is minimum. That’s where our boarding gates and companionway are. There is Little motion going down the companion way even when rough. Below is the galley, nav station, wet locker and one head. Above is the helm and winch controls. We have a relative small cockpit, the seats are just 6’, but I can lay dow and also reach everything I need to.

When underway, or in a really bad anchorage, we sleep on the long straight settee’s in the saloon. I think curved settees a waste. Also we have an interior companionway to the aft cabin, not separate access from the cockpit seen on many smaller CCs. I would hate that.

Obviously we think highly of our CC. But I think we have an exceptionally well thought out boat that fits OUR liveaboard lifestyle well. There are 44’ CC’s we would not own. There are 44’ aft cockpits that would do us well.

It is more about understanding the details of your personal use and preferences that matter. Also your willingness to adapt yourself and your boat. We have an old steelie, nicely appointed for us but not to others standards. But if we don’t like something we change it. Not so easily done in modern production boats.

To each his own, we are happy.

[SV__Grace]

We have a Nauticat 43 center cockpit ketch and the raised salon (with inside helm) is wonderful and doesn't make the interior cramped like other designs I've seen. Our aft cabin is awesome.

Freeboard is pretty high on this boat to make the interior so spacious, we climb 6 steps on the stern ladder to get from dinghy to deck. 3 steps if we board from the lowest point midships.

But the biggest drawback that I did not anticipate is how badly this design behaves at anchor. With the high freeboard, mast moved more forward to accomodate the raised salon and center cockpit, there is too much windage forward of the centerline and if I don't let out the mizzen as a riding sail when the wind kicks up the boat hunts all over the place.

We love our boat and the center cockpit rocks in so many ways as mentioned in this thread, but sometimes I'm jealous of the sleek aft cockpit sailboats that weathercock nicely when the wind blows in the anchorage.

[clakiep]

I sailed for a long time our family boat - a 45' yawl with a center cockpit - including two Atlantic crossings. Advantages : less motion, nearer to bow and stern, and a very social gathering area. Disadvantage : sailing to windward every lifted spray is headed directly to the face of the helmsman, and finding its way into the aft cabin. We later modified the boat, lifting the aft deck for a spacious aft cabin, and installed a second wheel station in a second cockpit on the upper aftdeck. Also we rerigged it as a ketch. It was a very happy transformation, giving us the choice to drive it from either station, depending on sunshine, wind and sea conditions. I'll try do ad a picture.

Capt. Claus - ocean tramp of the eighties

Sorry, don't know how to ad a picture. The picture ist in a URL but in my images arquive.

[Hoodsail]

Never owned a CC, but spent some time on one, a Bristol 45.5...My perspective is colored by my 35.5, but wow! the space below was huge comparatively. 10 ft more in length and over 3 ft more beam gets you a ton of space. Layout down below seemed typical, with large aft cabin, main saloon divided by companionway, and vee berth forward. My only gripe is the windage from such a tall profile and distance off the water...

[hpeer]

Yes in wet. Our 44’ CC is much wetter than the 33’ aft cockpit. But I am not sure that is mostly to CC or bow design issues.

[sailor_ed]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned engine access. On my Gulfstar 41 I have a sitting headroom engine room with LasDrop to fan belt access. I can have the transmission out before lunch and still feel my extremities. All my wrenches, sockets etc are all stored there in a warm dry location: no rust. It is easy to see engine issues before they become real problems. The engine is easy to keep clean, painted and rust free. Batteries in a secure box (4x120ah) are easy to check and maintain. I could go on. It is perfect for our liveaboard DIY lifestyle.



Wouldn't trade it for the world.



Fair winds


Ed

[hpeer]

Low profile vs high profile.

I the yellow boat I am sitting on the aft cabin deck, the wheel is below my knees. In the Hunter the wheel is several inches higher, the cockpit is less deep.

A lot of this comes from trying to maintain good standing headroom below and has little to do with CC vs AC. Ours is a heavy displacement boat and sits IN the water, the cabin some is lower. Light flat boats need a lot above water area to get good headroom. It also makes the faster and prone to pounding vs slow and stable.

Horses for courses, no right or wring, just different within the genre of CC.

It

[AiniA]

I have owned several aft cockpits and one centre cockpit, a Bristol 45.5 as was mentioned previously. We decided, actually my wife said it was non-negotiable and I agreed, that we wanted a separate sleeping cabin that could be used while on passage if we wanted. Originally we were looking around 42-43' and checked out a Hylas 42 (an aft cockpit unllke most of their boats) and a Swan 43'. They both had the same problem, to get standing room in the aft cabin they had enormously wide bridge decks. On the Swan this was probably 5+' until you got to the companionway. This meant you had a dodger at the front of the cockpit and you had to go around the dodger onto the deck to get to the companionway (something like 8 stairs) which had its own mini-dodger.

Not sure what the minimum size for a good centre-cockpit, probably around 40' but I have a friend with a Moody 34 centre cockpit and it works, largely because no attempt is made to have standing headroom in passage or aft cabin.

The galley on the Bristol was large and U-shaped and just at the bottom of the companionway. It is the best galley that I have personal experience with. Worst feature was the lack of even one large deck lockers. There were a couple of not very big lazarettes.

A final thought is that it is not a question of centre (or aft) cockpits being good or bad. There are particularly good and bad examples of both.

[sailingunity]

Another difference to point out, typically on aft cockpit boats the "main" sleeping cabin is forward, which is an uncomfortable place to sleep on passage. In CC boats, it's aft which is quite comfortable!

[sailone3032]

I have ad a stern cockpit boat but currently have a centre cockpit boat. I find the interior of the centre cockpit better and roomier than the stern cockpit. I agree with the comment that for a centre cockpit to work it should be a minimum of 45 ft. There is a lack of cockpit storage but plenty of room in the aft lazzaretts. For me it is important that the cockpit must be large enough to lie down in and I am 6'. I find that I stay drier in the centre cockpit. The biggest learning curve when moving to a centre cockpit was the concept that 1/3 of the boat was behind you and you have to remember to watch the stern when in tight quarters!

[Tortuga's Lie]

I love the feeling of sailing an aft cockpit boat, there's a real connection to the waves, wind that I am not sure you get on a CC boat. I agree that the accommodations on the CC are superior when beyond that 45 foot mark and the engine access mentioned earlier is usually better, although on my Tartan, it's really pretty decent. The one thing that I think is a huge detriment is the ability for the helmsman to handle dock lines. In an aft cockpit, I can easily grab lines while steering the boat. My dock neighbor has Hunter 45.5 center cockpit and he needs crew to go out and back, the wheel is too far removed from the cleats to scramble back and forth..........maybe not all CC boats are like this but I bet a fair number of them are.

[MicHughV]

For me...the problem area on a center cockpit boat is the area each side of the cockpit.

Typically, one side is the "walk-thru"...and also the primary engine access, but it's always a compromise, the actually walking area is usually quite narrow, 18" maybe, and head height clearance is iffy and if you have doors there, odds are you have to duck underneath.

In order to gain head height room, cockpit coamings on a center cockpit are typically not very high, as the cockpit seats need to be raised to gain head room below.

Neither of my center cockpit boats had cockpit seats long enough to lay down on....another area with shortcomings...but I attribute that to LOA size. I really think that around 45' is required to pull of a successful center cockpit. Some center cockpits have the galley along one side of the cockpit, a feature I do like.

For me, 45' is the magic "min. LOA" number for a successful center cockpit design.

Regardless, having owned and lived on both...the aft cockpit gets my " overall" best location award.

[waterman46]

Center cockpit only suitable for boat >40, preferably >45'.

With this caveat, things not listed in the OP's first post:
Pro: nearly everything. In reef navigation, much better view forward and down. Enables true engine room with workbench and tons of storage in fore-aft passage. Nice roomy suite aft. Keeps the kids separate from the adults at night. Perfect for ketch rig, since mizzen is several feet aft of the helm. Looking aft you see plenty of boat between you and a big sea - not nearly as scary!

Cons: Some CC designs have too many steps up from salon to cockpit. A Cheoy Lee 44 I was on had 7 steps. Game killer IMHO. We have only 4 and it's fine.

[Clivevon]

Interesting thread. I've had my 36 foot centre cockpit Westerly Conway ketch for 24 years with no complaints. Unfortunately my reasons for liking the privacy of the aft "owners suite" (my wife used to call it the cupboard) have changed as the boat & I have aged together but its still good not to be sleeping under the cockpit. Also the motion at sea in the aft cabin is much kinder than the forecabin. Less motion at sea in the centre cockpit too - I try not to sail with spray blasting back that far & put the sprayhood up if it is - the gap between that & the bimini is small enough to keep me dry at the helm, although the bimini is more use as a rain shelter in the UK.
Depends what grabs your fancy - all boats are a compromise although it seems to me that boat designs get uglier by the year...

[nhschneider]

We have owned our 48-foot center cockpit for over 25 years and have always found the trade-offs to be worth the advantages.

1. In a big sea or rough conditions, it feels very secure.
2. We have a large lazarette.
3. The davits fit nicely and are easily accessible.
4. A complete cockpit enclosure was easy to build and quick to install/remove.
5. With the engine/genset directly under the cockpit, the cabin doesn't get as hot as it might with the engine/genset under the cabin sole. Also, removing/replacing the engine was straightforward as the cockpit floor unbolted, giving easy access.
6. We have a spacious aft cabin.

Fair winds and calm seas.