choosing a wooden boat for cruising the world?

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

I don’t understand this. Are you saying that the wood planks can only breathe from one side, that if one side is sealed with epoxy they cannot breathe from the other side? And how does underwater wood breathe? Unless you cover both inside and outside of a plank won’t it still be exposed to the air on one side, the same as the underwater hull planks?

Please explain.

Rot will start in the wood under the fiberglass on the coated side. Rot is a fungus. Once it gets started in a plank it will continue until it pretty well destroys the whole thing - right through to the other side.

Salt water actually preserves wood and protects it from rot. That protects the boat from rotting from the outside below the waterline. However, fresh water promotes rot. If it (rain) water gets into otherwise dry spaces inside (and wooden boats are notorious for leaking from above), rot will start there. Old-timers would dump bags of salt in their bilges to counter the process.

There is advice earlier in this thread to sluice down wooden decks with salt water after every rain to wash off the fresh water. It's good advice. A few woods are highly resistant to rot. Teak is one of them - which is one reason it is used for decks.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

"Do not, I repeat DO NOT put fiberglass over wood and expect it to prolong the life of a boat. It does just the opposite. Wood needs to "breathe". Putting fiberglass over it traps the moisture underneath and the wood just rots away - in a hurry. Structural integrity is soon lost. Most of the old Chris Crafts (fiberglass over plywood) died early deaths - and they were built of dry material in a controlled factory environment! Applying fiberglass over wood on an existing boat is signing its death warrant!"

Hmmm. I wonder why it is the preferred route around here. I don't see any boats returning with problems.

I don't know. Maybe your hot, dry season dries the wood out enough to kill the fungus and it has to start all over again the next wet season (around here relative humidity almost never drops below 85% even in the hottest, driest summer period and often it's 100% or more) - or maybe your yards haven't been doing it long enough to realize the downsides - or maybe they just want the billing hours and aren't too worried that five years later the boat will fall apart.

[roland stockham]

I love wooden boats and have had three, one of them over 100yrs old! Like in most things quality matters. Some wooden boats where built light out of wood that does not have a long life others are heavily built from durable wood. So things to watch. Mahogany has a life of about 30-40 years after which it tends to go brittle, woods like teak or pitch pine have far more oil so don't tend to dry and go brittle and can have twice the lifespan or more. If a wooden boat is built 'light' it will be faster and livelier, it will be strong when new but all that movement wears fastenings and planks so it will need more maintenance. Wooden boats actually don't need that much maintenance, I spend way more time on electronics and machinery than on wood but they do need it regularly, let it slip for a couple of moths and the jobs quickly get much bigger so little and often is the principal. Not only are wooden boats getting less common but people with the skills to work on them are equally rare. If you get one you need to be prepared to become your own shipwright! Most jobs are not rocket science, timber is a simple low tech material and most things can be done with hand tools or basic power tools. The story you mention about planks 'loosening' is a good case. Fastenings do wear and can deteriorate. Copper or bronze should last a very long time but steel (galvanized or pickled) will rust and can be a problem but neither of theses are a disaster. Replacing fastenings is quite a simple job, knock the old one out, check the plank, drive in the new fastening, job done. More common with ocean sailing is the topping and calking loosening and causing general leeks or. Again not a complex job seep, pull out the old calking, ram in the new an top it. Bit laborious and time consuming but a satisfying job and only required every 20-50 years. Doing things like this parked on a beach somewhere pleasant should be part of owning a wooden boat but if you want to have a yard do it good luck finding one and its going to cost a fortune in labour so if you want other people to do your maintenance don't by wood!!

[tkeithlu]

I checked with our yard, and the pro said that Scorpius has a point. If you cover with fiberglass, but don't carefully keep water from getting in from above, it will rot and "you'll just have the fiberglass for a boat." He had no other suggestions for what to do with a wooden boat in this environment.

[Dougtiff]

Back in the 80'S i bought a Teak built Sail boat in Singapore, she had been sitting in a back water location for about 5 years after sailing to the Mediterranean (built in Singapore), returning on a ship as deck cargo, when hauled out, i discovered the bottom was covered with cascover, a nylon fabric impregnated with epoxy there were only a couple of spots wgere the cloth was not adhering, sailed that boat for 7 years.

[Pauls]

You wanted a steel boat for its durability. And you wanted a wooden boat for its warmth and charm. There is no reason not to have both. Steel boats are steel on the outside. On the inside they can be, and frequently are, wood. Steel hulls should have a good thick layer of insulation, after which a wooden interior is built. The result is a strong, insulated, quiet, dry (no bolted on deck fittings to leak, all deck fittings should be welded), steel boat on the outside and a wooden boat on the inside.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Pauls

You wanted a steel boat for its durability. And you wanted a wooden boat for its warmth and charm. There is no reason not to have both. Steel boats are steel on the outside. On the inside they can be, and frequently are, wood. Steel hulls should have a good thick layer of insulation, after which a wooden interior is built. The result is a strong, insulated, quiet, dry (no bolted on deck fittings to leak, all deck fittings should be welded), steel boat on the outside and a wooden boat on the inside.

Exactly! Scorpius is entirely welded - hull, deck, house - and has absolutely no leaks anywhere unless I leave a hatch open. Inside she has 1 1/2" of spray foam throughout (which has protected the flame-sprayed steel beautifully) then a wood interior. It's the best of all worlds!

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Dougtiff

Back in the 80'S i bought a Teak built Sail boat in Singapore, she had been sitting in a back water location for about 5 years after sailing to the Mediterranean (built in Singapore), returning on a ship as deck cargo, when hauled out, i discovered the bottom was covered with cascover, a nylon fabric impregnated with epoxy there were only a couple of spots wgere the cloth was not adhering, sailed that boat for 7 years.

Teak is very rot-resistant. North American boats are generally built of woods not nearly so rot-resistant.

What happened to her after the seven years? Is she still sailing?

[double u]

...the fibreglass cover of a carvel planked wooden boat is called "shroud" in German ("Leichentuch")
anecdotal evidence:
way back in 1990, wanting to trade books with a swiss cruiser in Tongatapu harbour: "books? reading? I got no time for that, I have a wooden boat!" - & that was just a 32 footer...

[bailsout]

All boats are work. I bought a 1966 Herreshoff 28 modified ketch which had not left the dock in 10 years. Built in Japan she is double planked mahogany over oak. The surveyor said she needed a ton of work, but she has good bones. I don’t think I’ll ever go back to a non-wooden boat. There’s just a feel about her, at the dock or under sail that just makes me feel jubilant. The secret to low maintenance is a full boat cover.

[CarinaPDX]

There are many boats around that have fiberglass hulls and the rest is wood, such as my own Cape George Cutter. In northern Europe the Vindo boats are good examples. They have the look and feel of a classic wooden boat with the practicality of a glass hull. Perhaps this is what you seek?

Greg

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway

Hi everybody,

for 2 years now we are trying to find "our" ship to travel the world. Our interest is in remote areas. Hot and cold. we do not like harbors.
After combining all our experiences with the knowledge of books on naval engeneering, we have narrowed down the choice to traditional steel boats. long keel, wheel house, ketch. slow and sturdy. able to take a "beating".
Budget is max. 150k USD asking price.

the more boats we look at, the more we recognize how much traditionaly crafted boats appeal to us. "cosy". like boats from 1920 to 1979.
there are some wounderful boat interiors which we can fall in love with emediately - and they are most if the time on wooden yachts.
.. not speaking of advantages like in-boat climate and humidity, low internal noise from waves etc.

I know - wood is not the easiest to maintain, but - you know - the boat is not only a vehicle - it is our living area. hour home.
thus we are tempted to waste some thoughts on traveling the world in a wooden yacht.
is there any knowldge amoung cruisers here, of this is a bad or a very bad idea .. lol.
Are there modern possibilities, to cope with wood worms?
do the planks of wood boats really become "loose" after years of bouncing throug hthe waves - as I heard in a you tube video?



Any ideas or advise?

kind regards
ralph

I vote very bad idea. If you're serious about cruising the world then opt for something well built that's more state of the art. Yes the old wooden boats look beautiful, until they don't which won't take very long. Around here most of them are dock queens used more as cocktail lounges and impressing the neighbors than anything you'd actually sail. Yes, people have been sailing around in them for hundreds of years but people also used to cross deserts in covered wagons too. Do yourself a favor and focus on something more conventional (fiberglass) that you won't spend more time maintaining than sailing. Don't let the romance cloud your judgement.

[adjo]

Timber does not have "to breathe" and can be sealed/reinforced with fibreglass successfully. The timber must be dry. Ideally use epoxy resin.

There are thousands of good timber-cored boats around. Some of them are virtually indistinguishable from plastic ones and require similar maintenance.

"Saving" an old wooden boat with loose fastenings and so on is another issue but it can be done successfully.

[NSboatman]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Do not, I repeat DO NOT put fiberglass over wood and expect it to prolong the life of a boat. It does just the opposite. Wood needs to "breathe". Putting fiberglass over it traps the moisture underneath and the wood just rots away - in a hurry. Structural integrity is soon lost. Most of the old Chris Crafts (fiberglass over plywood) died early deaths - and they were built of dry material in a controlled factory environment! Applying fiberglass over wood on an existing boat is signing its death warrant!

This is patently untrue. Those trees stopped ‘breathing’ the day they were chopped down!

You can absolutely encase wood in glass and resin successfully. Many (including me) have done it, and many, many boats have been saved this way.

You can also cause a horrible mess by glassing over unsound wood. Rot is rot, weak core material is weak core material. Just slapping some glass and resin on it doesn’t solve anything.

The key is to start with good, sound, dry, wood on a hull that fundamentally structurally sound; then do a meticulous and thorough job of encapsulating and sealing everything.

It can be done, and it can be wonderful.

[Greg K]

What CarinaPDX said about Cape George Cutters. I would add Cape Dory and a Shannon on that list. Owned the former and now sail the latter. Both are about as close as you're going to get to a wooden boat without having to deal with a wooden hull. Both have been mistaken for wooden boats numerous times. Some years ago, while on the hard in Turkey, some guy expressed interest in buying our former Cape Dory 36. Said he absolutely loved these wooden classics. When I told him she's plastic, he walked away disappointed.