Circumnavigation - Advice from you

[Ibetitsthisway]

I try to translate to english:


Everybody said it was impossible.

Then came the one who did Not know That and... Just did it.



Yes... You Are so very right. So many people Are afraid of assumed boundaries. Very few Ever get to the boundaries.



Those who pass Those boundaries know exactly were they Are... And they know it very quickly.

Within Minutes...seconds...not years.



After That life is easier. It is more transparent. The knowledge of the Real boundarie helps you coping With New boundaries...it makes one experience Things Lightning fast...

Some people cannot imagine That.

[tarian]

Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway

I try to translate to english:


Everybody said it was impossible.

Then came the one who did Not know That and... Just did it.



Yes... You Are so very right. So many people Are afraid of assumed boundaries. Very few Ever get to the boundaries.



Those who pass Those boundaries know exactly were they Are... And they know it very quickly.

Within Minutes...seconds...not years.



After That life is easier. It is more transparent. The knowledge of the Real boundarie helps you coping With New boundaries...it makes one experience Things Lightning fast...

Some people cannot imagine That.

well said someone has to be the first and we follow

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by tarian

What a lot of poppycock

Only those that are not good learners , fast adaptors , not willing to push boundaries, not willing to go the extra mile and push the limits of their own tolerances are those that take years to become good at something and they only belive they are good because they have the so called experience , expericence can come in a year for some it may take a lifetime , do not ever underestimate the power of the human and their motivation , those that are negative to the idea of people being able to compete or to do more than they have with less so called experince , are the ones that have not adapted and pushed the limits but have plodded along thinking that they are masters of all , get real , I have achived and punched way above my so called intelligence and experince through out my life , wining awards and getting to the top very quickly , why because I do not know when to stop pushing and learning every day, so all you so called all seeing expericened sea dogs I applaud you for there are those out there that are at their peak but a vast majority are sitting on their back ends beliving their own hype and thinking that it is never possible to be good at anything unless you have 30 years experince bollocks

I don't find that reply very balanced to a well put point of view. A bit rude, no? But apart from that, the sea can actually be a very dangerous place indeed where a bravado attitude is more likely to lead to, at best, a hurt ego and, at worst, death.

[tarian]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

I don't find that reply very balanced to a well put point of view. A bit rude, no? But apart from that, the sea can actually be a very dangerous place indeed where a bravado attitude is more likely to lead to, at best, a hurt ego and, at worst, death.

Only meant as Dry humour , and never underestimate Bravado with commitment and pushing boundaries , people will go sailing with 5 backups some with no instruments at all only a compass and sextant and the ability to use it , who is overcautious and who is being silly , there is no real answer ,the person with the compass might only have one year of sailing , but has the ability to use and navigate with stars and sun and can easily handle a 35 boat in the trades , are they being bravado . is the person with 5 back up chartplotters being over coautious , do they belive in their ablitiy to handle a situation were they might need to use a paper chart and a simple gps unit to plot and navigate , but they have sailed all their lifes with chart plotters what happens when it goes down , are they better or worse that the other sailor ,

My point is and stands so called experience on the sea does not make you the best or most adapt sailor it is what you are willing to learn and experiencew some one in one year can experience more that someone in 30 years on the sea who has the right to say they know nothing ,
Pushing the limits in a controlled enviroment were you are taking risks but have a plan to get out is not bravado it is called an adventure and there are still people out there willing to take an adventure on to feel the experience of doing it with a little controlled risk,
My last trip I sailed with no radar , AIS , very little plotter work , by map and compass only am I a better sailor than those with their 6 anntenas hanging of their boat ?
Risk is associated to what your willing to risk , I do not risk my life so I learn to minimize those risks by constantly learning and adapting that is how you learn, the learning curve is not the same in all so do not think that there are not people out there that can learn faster and better than the next person
A person in a certain Job for 30 years is experienced in that Job their 9 to 5 and can quote to you evedrything about their Job take then out of that Job and put them somewere else then what.......

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by tarian

My point is and stands so called experience on the sea does not make you the best or most adapt sailor it is what you are willing to learn and experiencew some one in one year can experience more that someone in 30 years on the sea who has the right to say they know nothing ,
Pushing the limits in a controlled enviroment were you are taking risks but have a plan to get out is not bravado it is called an adventure and there are still people out there willing to take an adventure on to feel the experience of doing it with a little controlled risk,
My last trip I sailed with no radar , AIS , very little plotter work , by map and compass only am I a better sailor than those with their 6 anntenas hanging of their boat ?

And indeed I more or less agree with what you say, and I should not read too much into how the message is delivered. I particularly agree with your text which I highlighted in bold above. This is exactly it, taking risks in a controlled environment with proper ways out in place which will make the learning curve the steepest. But to know the difference between a controlled environment and an uncontrolled one requires... experience! Also how to devise plans to get out requires.... more than an appetite to push yourself to the limit, it actually requires skill.

That is one point. The other is that it also depends on the context, especially: who else is on board. When I am alone I am quite relaxed about most situations even if I am learning something new. In the extreme, if I was going to come to some harm then it's just me. When I have people on board the situation completely changes. Especially with eg my family on board, I never want to be outside my own zone of comfort & experience. I must always be able to say to my family or whoever is on board: we have a good boat that is in excellent condition and I know more or less exactly what I am doing. If I cannot genuinely say those things then I am not being particularly good at skippering the boat. And that is something that would worry me about an individual with bold plans: by all means do it, but don't put others at risk who are not aware of what they are getting into.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

I don't find that reply very balanced to a well put point of view. A bit rude, no? But apart from that, the sea can actually be a very dangerous place indeed where a bravado attitude is more likely to lead to, at best, a hurt ego and, at worst, death.

Theres bold sailors and old sailors, but theres no bold old sailors.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

And indeed I more or less agree with what you say, and I should not read too much into how the message is delivered. I particularly agree with your text which I highlighted in bold above. This is exactly it, taking risks in a controlled environment with proper ways out in place which will make the learning curve the steepest. But to know the difference between a controlled environment and an uncontrolled one requires... experience! Also how to devise plans to get out requires.... more than an appetite to push yourself to the limit, it actually requires skill.

That is one point. The other is that it also depends on the context, especially: who else is on board. When I am alone I am quite relaxed about most situations even if I am learning something new. In the extreme, if I was going to come to some harm then it's just me. When I have people on board the situation completely changes. Especially with eg my family on board, I never want to be outside my own zone of comfort & experience. I must always be able to say to my family or whoever is on board: we have a good boat that is in excellent condition and I know more or less exactly what I am doing. If I cannot genuinely say those things then I am not being particularly good at skippering the boat. And that is something that would worry me about an individual with bold plans: by all means do it, but don't put others at risk who are not aware of what they are getting into.

I think it's a given that at some stage a cruising sailor will be out of his comfort zones as well as breaching his experience levels.

Sometimes you make mistakes or stuff just happens that you didnt see coming both resulting in pushing you beyond both comfort and experience boundaries.

Man plans ,God laughs!

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by tarian

What a lot of poppycock

Only those that are not good learners , fast adaptors , not willing to push boundaries, not willing to go the extra mile and push the limits of their own tolerances are those that take years to become good at something and they only belive they are good because they have the so called experience , expericence can come in a year for some it may take a lifetime , do not ever underestimate the power of the human and their motivation , those that are negative to the idea of people being able to compete or to do more than they have with less so called experince , are the ones that have not adapted and pushed the limits but have plodded along thinking that they are masters of all , get real , I have achived and punched way above my so called intelligence and experince through out my life , wining awards and getting to the top very quickly , why because I do not know when to stop pushing and learning every day, so all you so called all seeing expericened sea dogs I applaud you for there are those out there that are at their peak but a vast majority are sitting on their back ends beliving their own hype and thinking that it is never possible to be good at anything unless you have 30 years experince bollocks

Yes.



I agree 30 years in apprenticeship could be bollocks. But I do not see things happening before 3 to 5 years.


How many hours of sailing / training can an average joe put into 3 years of life? People need to get up go to work, come back, eat something, rest some. How much time is left for training and education? And how much stamina is available after an 8 hours' work day?



And I do not see good learners walking in packs here. Maybe they are popular elsewhere. Harvard, Princeton, MIT, etc. ?


My perspective is what it is, I started at 4 and now after 45+ years (not 30, again, sorry) I still feel some of my skills are far from good enough. Call me slow learner or anything I do not take this an offense. Just that the more I learn, the more I understand how much I do not know. I was winning races before I turned 9, but now I find my driving and trimming skills sub-optimal.



I think few people 35+ are good learners. Many 15 y.o are, but few of these devote time and energy learning sailing and planning a circumnav. They are more busy doing other things like general and vocational education and Netflix.


So I do not see things as pink as many bloggers and influencers claim it. I later check them up. They will tell you this is how to circumnavigate. Most say this as soon as they have crossed Cal to Hawaii. Some also claim they know before even departing. Hey look ma, this is HOW TO CIRCUMNAVIGATE.


Sure.


I do think learning to sail VERY well is a factor in the game. I respect SAR people too much to say things are bang easy.


I think we are talking the same language here just each has their own story. Their own 'way' as the Asians like to put it.


I was lucky, perhaps, to have some training and some (dinghy) experience, before we left. Given the pressure I had at that time, I think I would have set off even if I did not have what I had. The atolls were beckoning and the office was so damn boring.



The call of the sea is just too strong with some (Luke, I am your father ;-) but I always hope this applies only to very few people. I think on average people tend to go thru plenty of training and preparation before they make an attempt at a rtw or at an ultimate ascent or anything of this grade.



Doh.


b.

[daysgoneby]

Kandarik Tour with Pam Wall & Andy Schell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lny6IJ-2rC8&t=39s

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by tarian

Pushing the limits in a controlled enviroment were you are taking risks but have a plan to get out is not bravado it is called an adventure and there are still people out there willing to take an adventure on to feel the experience of doing it with a little controlled risk.

In my experience, being at sea on a cruising boat can be described as almost anything but never as a “controlled environment”. Especially not when your “plan to get out” includes an absence of technology in a very small life raft and a very big ocean.

Some people get lucky and then think it’s easy. I have lifelong friends that did three circumnavigations over their years of sailing and never experienced any serious weather. Their “bad weather” definition was a 35kn blow. But then, they were never “pushing the limits”.