College Grad Looking for Cruiser

[Maka]

Islander 36 should be on your list.
Couple of recent solo circumnavigation records set on them.
Zak Sunderland for one. His story might be of value to you too.

[doc_cj]

Still new enough to the boating world that I can only give limited advice. Before doing so, though, I'm kind of curious about the college degree and your plans. If you don't mind, what major did you have what degree did you earn?

I ask because I am a recently retired professor and I am taking sailing as my new avocation. I will be using, though, my college education to help support me with some small jobs I can do from a distance. It depends, of course, on the type of degree you have as well as your personal assets; i.e., being able to write well, being a valued "expert" in the given area, or being able to perform otherwise routine work from a distance and without direct supervision.

Now on to the boat shopping and purchase. Sounds like you've already got a good head start on the process. One thing I didn't see, though, was an inclusive plan that provided for refitting, repair, and continuing maintenance issues that come up on every boat that is being given solid use.
Thankfully, I've got a friend that is retired US Navy sailor and has done the "'round the world thing" as both a crewman and as a captain. When I told him of my plans to buy a boat his first statement was, "You're a big old dumba$$."

He then went on to explain, in a more civil fashion, that I should really plan my budget not just for a purchase but for a long term relationship with the boat. And he was right, within an hour of getting my boat on the water I discovered a couple things that I hadn't noticed on the shakedown ride. They weren't much but had I not planned on having things like this show up then I would have overspent my budget and had to wait a lot longer for a good sail.

The last thing I'll say is to invite you to post a running log of the experiences and actions you take along the way. Most of the newbies, I'm betting, will love to read about what you're doing so that we can learn from each other. So ... go forth and buy ... then tell us what you decided on.

[Vitulina]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Quote: " I certainly wont be squandering my savings before I know EXACTLY what I want/need."


Well, yes - you probably will be. None of us EVER get " EXACTLY what (we) want/need.". What we get is something that is reasonably close to what we THINK we want/need. Then we spend a pile of money on bringing it CLOSER to what we think we need. Then, as we learn about the boat we have, and about ourselves, we spend ANOTHER pile of money to modify what we thought we wanted/needed into something we think will be a better fit with our new-found perceptions. Ad infinitum.

If you have considerable sailing experience, you will already have developed firm likes and dislikes in regard to the TYPE of boat you'll want. Accommodations, handling and so forth. If you have little or no sailing experience, you can only confuse the issue by asking us in the way you've now asked the question because while certain makes and models of boats are more suitable for what you wish to do than others, the INDIVIDUAL boats within each make/model vary so much as a result of previous owners' modifications that boats of makes/models that in the general case might not be suitable, are nevertheless eminently suitable, and boats that COULD have been excellent candidates have been buggered about by previous owners to the degree that they are now unfit for your purpose.

Don't forget that boats are for sale for a reason. When you buy a fifty year old boat that has been through a succession of owners, you may very well find that each successive owner has known less and less about what is wanted/needed in a cruising boat, and has "improved" the boat by installing gear that will only get in your way because it is either unnecessary or too complex for the task it has to perform.

So if you shop for boats with a 50K budget for the PURCHASE, allow another 25K for modifications, and another 25K for fitting out for your first long voyage.

You can find plenty of good "platforms" (a sound hull, rig and engine) for fifteen or twenty grand on which you can then spend the twentyfive to bring 'er to good nick. Don't forget that if you buy a bad engine mounted in a good hull you are looking at twenty grand to repair/replace the engine. Most older boats need rewiring. If you can do it yourself - great! Five grand would do it. If you can't, and call in a marine electrician, you'll be outta pocket ten grand.

I think we can stop there :-)

Go look for something you THINK will fit the bill. Then come back with specific questions, and someone here will give you a specific answer based on ACTUAL EXPERIENCE.

All the best

TrentePieds

Alot of great information, thank you.

I apologize for the somewhat vague post, I imagine you get alot of people coming on and asking things of this nature. I wasn't in search of some golden answer, just sound advice or insight from people who are knowledgeable on this front. I have experience with sailing, but none with long passages such as the types I intend to be doing later on. The reason I am planning on buying the boat several years before the voyage itself is so I can get comfortable with the vessel, and undertake some longer open water passages before setting off on the main voyage. I have been told many people just pick up a boat and "sail away" on multi-year trips with little or no open water or even sailing experience, but I would be in no way comfortable with that, and I am willing to cough up the extra money to keep and maintain the boat for a few years while I refit and set aside living expenses for the trip.

The main reason for this thread was to ask about the sort of general standards, if any, that are set for a boat to make to worthy of an ocean crossing. Often times when I try and look up information like this I find extreme examples of people sailing around the world in <25ft boats, making the point that theoretically any boat is capable of making a long passage with the right crew. Or, alternatively, I find examples of people who had virtually no sailing experience, purchased an expensive, pre-equipped boat and sailed away to cross the Atlantic. Neither of those fit into the type of long term plan I have, and I am curious about the way in which the majority of people tend to approach this type of thing.

If I were just buying a sailboat for cruising around my area, I would generally know what to look for as that is what I have experience with but, as I said, my experience with long passages is limited and I was hoping to gleen a bit more information about what seperates a boat from being a good ocean cruiser or a bay cruiser in terms of physical attributes or rigging. By saying "getting EXACTLY what I want" I did not mean to get the "perfect" boat, I just meant I wouldn't go buy one based entirely off of the advice or research I get online.


Thanks again, your reply was extremely helpful.

[sailbot]

One book I found very inspiring to read was "Log of the Mahina", by John Neal. It is the story of another college age guy-- John Neal-- who back in the early 70's took a tour of the Pacific in an 27' Albin Vega. What I liked about the story was how simple and cheap John kept everything, and how he focused on actually doing the cruise instead of spending years prepping for it. Now-- 40 years later-- John Neal is an established blue water sailing educator and guru, with a website that has, among other things, a huge list of sailboats that he deems bluewater capable.

[Vitulina]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I'll join the crowd agreeing with Boatman. There is no generally accepted definition of a bluewater boat or even what bluewater means.

I got into a long "discussion" with one guy who had obviously read too many books and done very little sailing, who was convinced that to sail 50 miles from Florida to the Bahamas that he had to have a super sturdy, full keel, ketch rigged, double ended tank. Never did get a satisfactory answer when I pointed out people take jet skis and Hobie Cats to the Bahamas.

On the other extreme, people have sailed small, cheap, light weight production and home-built boats all over the world and lived to tell the tale.

I would try to narrow down the question to what you mean by bluewater. Do you mean sailing around Cape Horn or sailing across the Pacific trade winds route. Both are "bluewater" but entirely different.

If trade winds, Caribbean and Bahamas sailing then 90% of the production boats built, with a tiny modicum of care, will do the job.

Thank you for all this information, and advice.

I will hopefully be starting in the Carribean and then crossing through the canal and heading off to the South Pacific. In my time frame (and in general) I probably wouldn't feel comfortable enough to sail in areas such as the Cape Horn, or Good Hope without a few more years, and big cruises under my belt. Maybe later in life, but Im not looking for a boat for a circumnavigation in this outing.

I guess narrowing down the question of what is bluewater was basically the purpose of this thread for my interests. As I have said in previous replies, I have experience sailing in local waters, but don't know what separates those boats from ones capable of doing the type of voyage I am looking to undertake (length-to-displacement ration, draft etc). It seems the general consensus, which seems reasonable, is that a single answer to this question doesn't exist and it depends much more on my abilities as a sailor than anything else.

In my timeline, I am hoping to expand my sailing skills after purchasing the boat by taking it out on smaller voyages while I am refitting it. This puts me sort of at odds with much of the information I have found thus far. Many people with little sailing experience saved up, bought an expensive boat and sailed off to do long passages, learning as they go. Others are hardened sailing veterans and bought small, lightly equipped boats, relying much more on skill and know how right off the bat. I am hoping to fall somewhere in the middle of this, so I am looking for folks with similar backgrounds or those who can point me in the right direction of what sort of boats to look for.


Thanks again for the response. Much appreciated.

[Vitulina]

Originally Posted by sailbot

One book I found very inspiring to read was "Log of the Mahina", by John Neal. It is the story of another college age guy-- John Neal-- who back in the early 70's took a tour of the Pacific in an 27' Albin Vega. What I liked about the story was how simple and cheap John kept everything, and how he focused on actually doing the cruise instead of spending years prepping for it. Now-- 40 years later-- John Neal is an established blue water sailing educator and guru, with a website that has, among other things, a huge list of sailboats that he deems bluewater capable.

Thank you, I will look into both of those resources. Exactly the type of thing I was looking for.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Vitulina,

My experience is that each boat leads to the next, and it is an expensive process, but fun. After I met Jim, we cruised his Yankee 30, a 30 ft. Sparkmans & Stevens design coastally, then offshore to Hawaii. In those days, one sailed what one had. S&S designs are generally well rounded boats. The Yankee 30 had a tendency to "oil can", and Jim fixed his, according to instructions from the designer, before we took it offshore. People in those days were circumnavigating in the boats they already had, some as small as 20 ft., and, by the 1980's, a 36 footer was a big boat, for a while.

My point is that you do not need to have a large (30-40 ft.) boat for a circumnavigation. We know two couples who circumnavigated in 26 and 27 footers. You take a boat you like, and make it stronger where it is weak, and go for it. There is an allied issue here, and that is sensitive seamanship. If you understand where your boat is weak, your sailing style can compensate for it. That's where Boatman 61 is coming from, and he's aware of smaller British built boats that would be adequately capable. He's a delivery skipper who nurses poorly prepared and fitted out boats across oceans for owners who choose not to do it themselves. My advice to you is to get out sooner rather than later and start sailing, start building that fund of knowledge and experience that will both inform future decisions as to "which" boat but also "when to reef" and so on. Maybe a 15 foot trailer sailer, or even something like a Catalina 22 would do for introductory boats, or a small dinghy. The smaller, the faster your learning curve.

Another CF member, Steady Hand, has started a thread about boats under $30k. That might be a good place for you to start looking. At first, with no knowledge base, you'll just be attracted to what visually pleases you. It will be experience that tunes your perception towards what works at sea.

Trente Pieds is completely correct: among older vessels, their condition will vary a lot, according to the care (or lack of it) given by the previous owner. Remember every time you see fresh paint to wonder what is it hiding? Cultivate a sceptical attitude. There's a reason we still say, "caveat emptor."

Ann

[Don C L]

Another thing you might look into is finding a delivery skipper you can apprentice with. If you can crew on as many boats as possible before you start looking, that is good. And deliveries will teach you a lot about what it's really like and how to solve real world problems once you are out there. And of course you'll certainly get a feel for the designs, rigs and interior layouts you prefer.

[Vitulina]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Another thing you might look into is finding a delivery skipper you can apprentice with. If you can crew on as many boats as possible before you start looking, that is good. And deliveries will teach you a lot about what it's really like and how to solve real world problems once you are out there. And of course you'll certainly get a feel for the designs, rigs and interior layouts you prefer.

Where would I look into offering my services for such an endeavour? I would feel uncomfortable offering my "services" at a professional level (i.e. having peoples lives, money and time on the line) without first having considerable experience with open water sailing. Or is this "apprenticeship" more focused on people with some, but no trans-oceanic, sailing experience, sort of a learning experience?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Vitulina

Thank you for all this information, and advice.

I will hopefully be starting in the Carribean and then crossing through the canal and heading off to the South Pacific. In my time frame (and in general) I probably wouldn't feel comfortable enough to sail in areas such as the Cape Horn, or Good Hope without a few more years, and big cruises under my belt. Maybe later in life, but Im not looking for a boat for a circumnavigation in this outing.

I guess narrowing down the question of what is bluewater was basically the purpose of this thread for my interests. As I have said in previous replies, I have experience sailing in local waters, but don't know what separates those boats from ones capable of doing the type of voyage I am looking to undertake (length-to-displacement ration, draft etc). It seems the general consensus, which seems reasonable, is that a single answer to this question doesn't exist and it depends much more on my abilities as a sailor than anything else.

In my timeline, I am hoping to expand my sailing skills after purchasing the boat by taking it out on smaller voyages while I am refitting it. This puts me sort of at odds with much of the information I have found thus far. Many people with little sailing experience saved up, bought an expensive boat and sailed off to do long passages, learning as they go. Others are hardened sailing veterans and bought small, lightly equipped boats, relying much more on skill and know how right off the bat. I am hoping to fall somewhere in the middle of this, so I am looking for folks with similar backgrounds or those who can point me in the right direction of what sort of boats to look for.


Thanks again for the response. Much appreciated.

As others like Anne Cate have suggested, your wants and needs in boating will almost certainly change over time and as you gain experience. Staring out cruising the Caribbean you could start with a basic, decent quality production boat. As I and others have indicated, most any production boat will work for that, assuming you pay some attention and don't sail off into the middle of a hurricane or play tag with a coral reef. Learn boats, boating and your own preferences for cruising and you will graduate to your next boat with a lot more assurance in your choice.

Just remember, how many guys in high school choose their lifetime partner based on the first date?

[Vitulina]

Originally Posted by doc_cj

Still new enough to the boating world that I can only give limited advice. Before doing so, though, I'm kind of curious about the college degree and your plans. If you don't mind, what major did you have what degree did you earn?

I ask because I am a recently retired professor and I am taking sailing as my new avocation. I will be using, though, my college education to help support me with some small jobs I can do from a distance. It depends, of course, on the type of degree you have as well as your personal assets; i.e., being able to write well, being a valued "expert" in the given area, or being able to perform otherwise routine work from a distance and without direct supervision.

Now on to the boat shopping and purchase. Sounds like you've already got a good head start on the process. One thing I didn't see, though, was an inclusive plan that provided for refitting, repair, and continuing maintenance issues that come up on every boat that is being given solid use.
Thankfully, I've got a friend that is retired US Navy sailor and has done the "'round the world thing" as both a crewman and as a captain. When I told him of my plans to buy a boat his first statement was, "You're a big old dumba$$."

He then went on to explain, in a more civil fashion, that I should really plan my budget not just for a purchase but for a long term relationship with the boat. And he was right, within an hour of getting my boat on the water I discovered a couple things that I hadn't noticed on the shakedown ride. They weren't much but had I not planned on having things like this show up then I would have overspent my budget and had to wait a lot longer for a good sail.

The last thing I'll say is to invite you to post a running log of the experiences and actions you take along the way. Most of the newbies, I'm betting, will love to read about what you're doing so that we can learn from each other. So ... go forth and buy ... then tell us what you decided on.

Just to clarify I havent graduated, yet. In hindsight I couldnt have made that any less clear in my title. I WILL be a college grad when I actually start the process of buying a cruiser.

I am getting an MBA with a focus in sustainability. Its often called a "Green MBA". I am really interested in website marketing and advertising, which hopefully somewhere down the line will provide "passive" income that I could possibly maintain while aboard, but that likely won't be in the picture until post cruise (unless I can pull a SV Delos or La Vagabond ). The main focus of my work will likely be in energy management and efficiency, environmental impact reports, and the like. I am hoping to work for a few years out of school, go on the cruise, and return with enough cash to give myself several months to find another job; and then continue towards a more permanent career. The reason hope to do a long cruise out of college is that I want to avoid waiting too long and becoming seriously invested in my career or begin building a family. This is something I want to do while I am young, I imagine as the years go on it will become more and more difficult to uproot and leave my life behind to go sail the world, so I intend to do that before my roots are firmly planted.

The reason I made this thread was to get advice on what to look for in a sailing boat. Some people say no less than $100,000 for a boat, others say I can get a boat ready to cross the pacific for $50,000 flat. In the end my timeline will be dependent most on A) My ability to find work, and my post-grad income, and B) The cost of refitting the boat. The thing I am trying to get a better understanding of now is the types of boats which can cruise the Carribean and sail the Pacific. I was hoping to get pointed in the direction of some battle tested makes & models that a could purchase, in good condition, within my base $50,000 price range or, alternatively, learn what I should look for in a boat to determine whether or not its ocean-crossing ready (which I have been). Outside of that, calculating the cost of refitting and provisioning will obviously depend heavily on the condition of the boat I purchase. As I said, I would much rather invest more in a boat that is already mostly prepared for a blue water cruising, than buy very cheap and spend more outfitting. They say to expect the unexpected when it comes to outfitting a sailboat, and the only piece of advice everyone seems to agree on is that generally "**** goes wrong". Any unexpected expenses will have to be dealt with as they come. I cannot long-term plan for these "surprises" outside of ASSUMING I will have a reliable and steady flow of income to deal with them as they come, and understanding that I may have to delay my departure. If I can't find work, then obviously all of this will have to be put on hold until I do. This process starts the day I get hired, not the day I graduate. The $35,000 could buy me a boat, or pay for rent, groceries and gas depending on how things turn out

I want a sailboat, first and foremost. This is a vessel I plan on keeping for a very long time, and I know that cost comes with simply owning a sailboat not just outfitting and upgrading it. However, my primary short-term goal in boat ownership will be to do a multi-year live-aboard cruise through the Carribean and South Pacific - so I want one capable of doing just that. What I am trying to learn, as best as I can through reading, is what criteria separates a coastal/bay cruiser from a boat capable of crossing the Pacific.


Thank you for the input on my plan- there's so much that goes into this process, but in a way it seems the little things are what matter in the long run. I will be sure to post updates as they come! Cheers.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Vitulina

Where would I look into offering my services for such an endeavour? I would feel uncomfortable offering my "services" at a professional level (i.e. having peoples lives, money and time on the line) without first having considerable experience with open water sailing. Or is this "apprenticeship" more focused on people with some, but no trans-oceanic, sailing experience, sort of a learning experience?

Well, there are folks here like boatman who do deliveries regularly. Hopefully they will chime in. I think experience is good of course, but the main things they'd like to see is reliability, an agreeable personality, eagerness to learn and the ability to stay calm in the face of adversity (or sea sickness.) I have crewed on a couple of deliveries and that was what that particular skipper was looking for. That's what I'd look for. If you can steer and follow a compass that is a good start. If you can cook a nice meal while underway you might be employed for life! The one time I delivered a boat for a friend, while everyone had been sailing before, only three out of the five of us were really what you'd call experienced. So, don't sell yourself short, ask around where you are who the better delivery skippers are and chat with them about it. Talk to local riggers about who the better skippers are too. If you aren't sure who the local riggers are, go in the local chandlery or boatyard and ask around. I am not sure where you are but harbors often have a community of folks that you should introduce yourself to. Most are very happy to help you get started I bet, because they went through the same things.

[Vitulina]

Originally Posted by skipmac

As others like Anne Cate have suggested, your wants and needs in boating will almost certainly change over time and as you gain experience. Staring out cruising the Caribbean you could start with a basic, decent quality production boat. As I and others have indicated, most any production boat will work for that, assuming you pay some attention and don't sail off into the middle of a hurricane or play tag with a coral reef. Learn boats, boating and your own preferences for cruising and you will graduate to your next boat with a lot more assurance in your choice.

Just remember, how many guys in high school choose their lifetime partner based on the first date?

I am looking for a boat to own for an extended period of time. I plan on sailing the Carribean, but also the South Pacific (the area I am most interested in cruising). I live on the west coast, so I will likely be shipping the boat (once outfitted and living expenses are saved) to the gulf and then cruise the Carribean, doing some longer passages for the first leg, and then taking it through Panama and across to the South Pacific for the main portion of the trip, and then back home. This does complicate things obviously because I need to buy a boat capable of sailing in waters thousands of miles away. Many boats for sale around here are so-called "coastal cruisers", which isn't what I am looking for. I know there are hundreds of boats suited for my purposes, but I am hoping to hammer out a few critical features I should look for that separates those boats from inshore ones.

I have gotten frustrated browsing yacht-broker and similar sights, finding a "cruising" boat which falls in my price range only to find (after more research) that boats of that make, model and year are considered unsafe for long passages. I know through an understanding of boating (and research) what equipment is needed to do a safe oceanic crossing, but understanding what makes the vessel itself ready for a long passage has been much more ambiguous and difficult to nail down. My experiences with boats (both power and sail) is extensive in my home waters, and I also went through a 4-year program in highschool centered around the maritime industry, including qualifying for a 6-pack license, electrical, maritime law etc. One of the biggest focuses was in navigation, course setting, and charting. I'm not saying this to brag, as I know it pails in comparison to the experience of the majority of people on this board, but I say it to clarify that I am not jumping into this world completely blind.

Sorry if my replies are a bit convoluted, I am trying to respond to everyone and, as a result, I find myself reiterating a lot of information. I hope I am not coming off as arrogant or brash because I really genuinely appreciate your input and critique- its why I made this thread. It am trying to avoid falling into both the category of "clueless newbie" who shouldn't even be in the process of buying a cruiser and that of "hard headed dreamer" who asks for advice and then rejects it. Sometimes I worry I might sound like a little bit of both in the process

Thanks again for the reply!

[Vitulina]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Well, there are folks here like boatman who do deliveries regularly. Hopefully they will chime in. I think experience is good of course, but the main things they'd like to see is reliability, an agreeable personality, eagerness to learn and the ability to stay calm in the face of adversity (or sea sickness.) I have crewed on a couple of deliveries and that was what that particular skipper was looking for. That's what I'd look for. If you can steer and follow a compass that is a good start. If you can cook a nice meal while underway you might be employed for life! The one time I delivered a boat for a friend, while everyone had been sailing before, only three out of the five of us were really what you'd call experienced. So, don't sell yourself short, ask around where you are who the better delivery skippers are and chat with them about it. Talk to local riggers about who the better skippers are too. If you aren't sure who the local riggers are, go in the local chandlery or boatyard and ask around. I am not sure where you are but harbors often have a community of folks that you should introduce yourself to. Most are very happy to help you get started I bet, because they went through the same things.

Well by that metric I think I would qualify, I would be very interested in doing something like this. My dads good friend is a skipper, delivering boats on the east coast to and from the Carribean. I will get in touch with him and ask to accompany him on a passage to get some long-haul experience.

Something that hadn't occurred to me, thank you!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Vitulina

I am looking for a boat to own for an extended period of time. I plan on sailing the Carribean, but also the South Pacific (the area I am most interested in cruising). I live on the west coast, so I will likely be shipping the boat (once outfitted and living expenses are saved) to the gulf and then cruise the Carribean, doing some longer passages for the first leg, and then taking it through Panama and across to the South Pacific for the main portion of the trip, and then back home. This does complicate things obviously because I need to buy a boat capable of sailing in waters thousands of miles away. Many boats for sale around here are so-called "coastal cruisers", which isn't what I am looking for. I know there are hundreds of boats suited for my purposes, but I am hoping to hammer out a few critical features I should look for that separates those boats from inshore ones.

I have gotten frustrated browsing yacht-broker and similar sights, finding a "cruising" boat which falls in my price range only to find (after more research) that boats of that make, model and year are considered unsafe for long passages. I know through an understanding of boating (and research) what equipment is needed to do a safe oceanic crossing, but understanding what makes the vessel itself ready for a long passage has been much more ambiguous and difficult to nail down. My experiences with boats (both power and sail) is extensive in my home waters, and I also went through a 4-year program in highschool centered around the maritime industry, including qualifying for a 6-pack license, electrical, maritime law etc. One of the biggest focuses was in navigation, course setting, and charting. I'm not saying this to brag, as I know it pails in comparison to the experience of the majority of people on this board, but I say it to clarify that I am not jumping into this world completely blind.

Sorry if my replies are a bit convoluted, I am trying to respond to everyone and, as a result, I find myself reiterating a lot of information. I hope I am not coming off as arrogant or brash because I really genuinely appreciate your input and critique- its why I made this thread. It am trying to avoid falling into both the category of "clueless newbie" who shouldn't even be in the process of buying a cruiser and that of "hard headed dreamer" who asks for advice and then rejects it. Sometimes I worry I might sound like a little bit of both in the process

Thanks again for the reply!

First question, "only to find (after more research) that boats of that make, model and year are considered unsafe for long passages." By what criteria or based on what information are you finding these boats unsafe for long passages? I would be interested in hearing about some of these boats.

As several members have commented on this thread, there'a lot of boats that "aren't considered suitable for ocean crossings" that are out there crossing oceans all the time. Too many arm chair sailors pontificate about what kind of boat is or isn't suitable for ocean passages while others are out on the ocean sailing those boats.

Sailing the Caribbean and Pacific is about as mellow as you can get. Yes it can occasionally get a little stormy and you do have to avoid hurricane season but otherwise, no problem.

Also, I would suggest you buy the boat where you will sail the boat. Moving a 35-40' boat across the country will cost thousands of dollars. Also, if you plan on sailing on the east coast, there are probably lots and lots more boats for sale on the east coast than the west. Also, depending on where you're located on the west coast it will generally be a lot cheaper to keep a boat on the east coast than the west.