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Old 05-02-2020, 13:03   #181
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Nope, the luggable loo pictured is not a Type III MSD.

At least in Ontario, porta-potties of any description are illegal unless they are fastened to the boat, and plumbed for pumpout at shoreside facilities.
provide regulatory statute proof please .
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Old 05-02-2020, 13:06   #182
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Well, when removing the urine container from the toilet in a rolling sea it is highly possible it will be spilled.

Additionally, if one opens the toilet to remove the feces / fibre container inside the vessel there is a good chance of spillage in the vessel.

Highly possible and a good chance? You obviously have zero experience with composting heads.
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Old 05-02-2020, 13:09   #183
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Says who? (Other than a composting fanatic.) Please cite any accredited scientific evidence.



This is total nonsense.



Problem is, when covered and under pressure (as common in a landfill) it doesn't.



No! It is possible that urine be sterile when in the body (if no UTI exists). If it was sterile to begin with (no guarantees). However, the instant it is peed out, it is no longer sterile and bacteria colonies can thrive in it.



Well, when removing the urine container from the toilet in a rolling sea it is highly possible it will be spilled.

Additionally, if one opens the toilet to remove the feces / fibre container inside the vessel there is a good chance of spillage in the vessel.

The alternative solution being to carry the entire heading including urine container and feces / fibre container, through the vessel from head to exit and location chosen for dismantling, IF that particular brand model secures the urine container well enough (some don't), else it must be removed in advance to carry out the toilet.
it is a fact that Ontario Canada has 4 type 1 sewage treatment plants .read the article out of your own little worlds newspaper I provided a link to said article .

Btw your little lake Ontario is not even a grain of sand wrt the rest of the planet.

Sorry the link didn't seem to take the first time

https://globalnews.ca/news/545254/ca...-embarrassment
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Old 05-02-2020, 13:17   #184
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

[QUOTE=smj;3068575]Your wrong on points #1 and #3.

Since you have not provided any explanation as to "why" or "how" you believe your claim, I consider it invalid and unsubstantiated.

Quote:
Here’s the painful process of dumping the solids out of the C-Head. Look out for all that toxic waste traveling through the boat!

17 seconds out of the life of a composter owner. Ive dealt with much more toxic waste and it’s taken much more time dealing with a pump out.
Ha, ha, ha,

First of all, the "actor" has staged the set-up for the video, placing the cap on the urine jug before hand.

(Usually, the jug would be open and have to be capped, during which time, a spill could occur.)

In practice, especially in a rolling seaway, no "real person" would leave that jug of urine on the vanity, (which, due to its proximity to the feces/fibre bucket, is very bad form indeed) just awaiting the next wake or wave to send it crashing to the floor, exploding its contents everywhere.

Additionally, the "actor" staged the retrieval and preparation of the disposal bucket off camera.

In real world conditions, the bucket could have been blown or washed away, while the "actor" was going to retrieve the feces/fibre bucket.

Interestingly, the "actor" is not wearing disposable gloves, despite handling raw feces / fibre. Gross! The risk of transmitting bacteria and pathogens onto anything they touch afterward is extremely high.

I sure wouldn't want them preparing a beverage or food after that display of complete waste handling / hygiene incompetence.

So what about that urine bucket?

That looked like a good gallon and a half, in need of emptying.

Did it magically disappear?

And lastly, the video ends with the open bucket of feces / fibre mixture in the middle of the cockpit.

Nice conversation piece.

What next, set it on fire and roast marshmallows?

Does it just magically disappear like the urine?

Similarly, one could stage a 10 second video entitled "Installing a Proper Marine Head" that shows an "actor" tightening the 4 floor mounting bolts.
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Old 05-02-2020, 13:22   #185
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
provide regulatory statute proof please .
Already done in this thread.

Please refer to the coast guard regs posted.
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Old 05-02-2020, 13:35   #186
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

[QUOTE=ramblinrod;3068620]
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Your wrong on points #1 and #3.



Since you have not provided any explanation as to "why" or "how" you believe your claim, I consider it invalid and unsubstantiated.







Ha, ha, ha,



First of all, the "actor" has staged the set-up for the video, placing the cap on the urine jug before hand.



(Usually, the jug would be open and have to be capped, during which time, a spill could occur.)



In practice, especially in a rolling seaway, no "real person" would leave that jug of urine on the vanity, (which, due to its proximity to the feces/fibre bucket, is very bad form indeed) just awaiting the next wake or wave to send it crashing to the floor, exploding its contents everywhere.



Additionally, the "actor" staged the retrieval and preparation of the disposal bucket off camera.



In real world conditions, the bucket could have been blown or washed away, while the "actor" was going to retrieve the feces/fibre bucket.



Interestingly, the "actor" is not wearing disposable gloves, despite handling raw feces / fibre. Gross! The risk of transmitting bacteria and pathogens onto anything they touch afterward is extremely high.



I sure wouldn't want them preparing a beverage or food after that display of complete waste handling / hygiene incompetence.



So what about that urine bucket?



That looked like a good gallon and a half, in need of emptying.



Did it magically disappear?



And lastly, the video ends with the open bucket of feces / fibre mixture in the middle of the cockpit.



Nice conversation piece.



What next, set it on fire and roast marshmallows?



Does it just magically disappear like the urine?



Similarly, one could stage a 10 second video entitled "Installing a Proper Marine Head" that shows an "actor" tightening the 4 floor mounting bolts.


First of I’m the actor.....so
Ha ha ha, there wasn’t a cap on the urine jug, and no spills!
This wasn’t taken offshore in a seaway but in a nice anchorage.
Yes, the disposal bucket was set up before hand......ad another 10 seconds. It was set up in the cockpit so it was easy to see on the video, where usually it would be down below next to the head. Subtract 5 seconds for the walk from head to cockpit and no it wouldn’t have been blown or washed away.
YesI wasn’t wearing gloves. I wasn’t planning on bathing in the solids tub and got no dookie on me. Besides I’m a man, I can wash my hands after. We will leave the gloves to the delicate flowers out there.
That’s a standard gallon milk/water jug so your math is of.
Believe it or not, we actually tied the bag of then double bagged it.
Amazing I’m still alive dealing with all this toxic waste and if I ever meet you I’ll make sure to wear rubber gloves.
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Old 05-02-2020, 13:43   #187
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Already done in this thread.

Please refer to the coast guard regs posted.
The USCG regs actually say the oposite so you have just disproven your own argument.
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Old 05-02-2020, 13:44   #188
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Nope, the luggable loo pictured is not a Type III MSD.

At least in Ontario, porta-potties of any description are illegal unless they are fastened to the boat, and plumbed for pumpout at shoreside facilities.
Can't speak to Canadian excrement regulations but for the US coast guard regulations it would be legal if it was "installed on the vessel", i.e., fastened, which fastening is wise since a boat rocks and the bucket might tip over. A quick release hold down bracket is all that is required to be installed which are typical for most of the porta potties on small boat heads and pontoon boats. Secure tethering qualifies as being "installed" as does placing the bucket into a outhouse type bench support.
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Old 05-02-2020, 13:48   #189
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

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Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
Can't speak to Canadian excrement regulations but for the US coast guard regulations it would be legal if it was "installed on the vessel", i.e., fastened, which fastening is wise since a boat rocks and the bucket might tip over. A quick release hold down bracket is all that is required to be installed which are typical for most of the porta potties on small boat heads and pontoon boats. Secure tethering qualifies as being "installed" as does placing the bucket into a outhouse type bench support.
To get a real good idea about their sewage rules just look at how victoria bc handles the cities sewage collected and directly discharged into the salish sea. A USA designated ndz.
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Old 05-02-2020, 14:07   #190
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
The USCG regs actually say the oposite so you have just disproven your own argument.
Sorry but you are incorrect. The rules are clear. The device must meet very specific standards as verified by a laboratory, and be labelled to very specific standards.

A luggable loo and your home built does not qualify.
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Old 05-02-2020, 15:05   #191
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Sorry but you are incorrect. The rules are clear. The device must meet very specific standards as verified by a laboratory, and be labelled to very specific standards.

A luggable loo and your home built does not qualify.
I am thinking you and Howard Hughes would have had a lot in common.
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Old 05-02-2020, 15:36   #192
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Sorry but you are incorrect. The rules are clear. The device must meet very specific standards as verified by a laboratory, and be labelled to very specific standards.

A luggable loo and your home built does not qualify.
if it didn't I would not have passed a full USCG compliance inspection in my NDZ home waters of Puget sound.
My composting head is considered a portable toilet therefore not regulations by the USCG. Same with a porta pottie at least untill you hook up some type of shipboard service to it . A pump out hose ( on a porta pottie )
the electric and a vent hose that is secured to the vessel make the composter now regulatable.
Mine does not need a fan it is a composting toilet.
Not a desiccating type of composter . ( which btw don't actually need the vent fan to function correctly

Try again

The luggable loo. Now that's different it would not pass muster unless it had the proper wag bags on the vessel for it .
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Old 05-02-2020, 15:43   #193
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Sorry but you are incorrect. The rules are clear. The device must meet very specific standards as verified by a laboratory, and be labelled to very specific standards.

A luggable loo and your home built does not qualify.
All the MSD Type III device needs to do to be qualified is use it solely for storage of sewage and the flushwater at ambient air pressure and be designed to prevent the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage. That is it. It is deemed certified if it accomplishes those requirements.

§ 159.12a Certification of certain Type III devices.
(a) The purpose of this section is to provide regulations for certification of certain Type III devices.

(b) Any Type III device is considered certified under this section if:

(1) It is used solely for the storage of sewage and flushwater at ambient air pressure and temperature; and

(2) It is in compliance with § 159.53(c).
See below.

(c) Any device certified under this section need not comply with the other regulations in this part except as required in paragraphs (b)(2) and (d) of this section and may not be labeled under § 159.16. [I]Meaning it does not need to be tested as to chemical compatibility or performance by a recognized testing facility. There is NO CERTIFICATION TESTING FOR TYPE III DEVICES. A Type III device is not treating sewage for discharge purposes, it is just holding the sewage so it won't be discharged. The device literally could be a part of your bilge which is incapable of being discharged. And the Type III device is NOT allowed to be labeled as being certified as to meeting the standard tests.[/I]
(d) Each device certified under this section which is installed aboard an inspected vessel must comply with § 159.97. Deals with safety of inspected vessels.

[CGD 76-145, 42 FR 11, Jan. 3, 1977]

§ 159.53 General requirements.
A device must:

(a) Under the test conditions described in §§ 159.123 and 159.125, produce an effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 1,000 per 100 milliliters and no visible floating solids (Type I),

(b) Under the test conditions described in §§ 159.126 and 159.126a, produce an effluent having a fecal coliform bacteria count not greater than 200 per 100 milliliters and suspended solids not greater than 150 milligrams per liter (Type II), or

(c) Be designed to prevent the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage (Type III).

[CGD 73-83, 40 FR 4624, Jan. 30, 1975, as amended by CGD 75-213, 41 FR 15325, Apr. 12, 1976]
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Old 05-02-2020, 15:45   #194
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

Again, I've used and emptied both solids and the liquids all over the place, including the west coast of vancouver island in big swells. It's not hard. The liquids have a cap. The fact you think that it's a hazardous operation filled with peril again shows you've never done it. I don't even wear gloves when emptying both containers - i just wash my hands afterwards. Again, it takes around 30 seconds, and is way less gross and traumatic than trying to fix a broken traditional head, let alone in a seaway (one of my friends had a hose crack after the discharge seacock got bunged up, leading to a few gallows of raw mixed sewage sloshing around in the bilges.)

I had a longer reply typed up but realised it was kind of pointless arguing with someone who has never used one of these things

The fact that almost everyone who switched prefers it kind of takes away from your image of a septic, hard to use deathtrap
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Old 05-02-2020, 15:49   #195
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Re: Composting head vs classic head

Reference the Frequently Asked Question at the Environmental Protection Agency for clarification of TYPE III and Composting Toilets.

https://www.epa.gov/vessels-marinas-...tions#pumpouts

"Can I use a composting toilet onboard my vessel?

Composting toilets may be considered a Type III marine sanitation device by the U.S. Coast Guard. Type III devices that store sewage and flushwater at ambient air pressure and temperature are not subject to formal certification by the U.S. Coast Guard, as long as the device complies with the following requirement: "Be designed to prevent the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage (Type III)." Please note that most composting toilets have not been examined by the U.S. Coast Guard. Instead, in most cases, the device manufacturer attests that the device meets the aforementioned requirements.

The contents of both the liquid waste container and the compost chamber must be properly disposed of such that no overboard discharge occurs.

See 33 CFR 159.12(a) and 33 CFR 159.53(c) for the relevant statutory language.
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