Composting head vs classic head

[smj]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Nope.



No BS.



It's called cruise planning.



Boaters with good seamanship skills do it all the time.

Having a 5 gallon holding tank means you have to cruise within a stones throw of a pump out station. Many wouldn’t consider that cruising.
The size of your holding tank has absolutely nothing to do with seamanship.

[bobrosie]

WH, no need for that snarky reply.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by swordds

There is another option that rarely gets mentioned, a Laveo Dry Flush. It works very well for me and I am totally satisfied with it.

There's an interesting option. But at only "17 uses" per cartridge, and each cartridge costing about $50 (yikes!), it doesn't sound very economical. Plus, it's also a lot of waste with all the plastic that gets tossed.

But interesting...

[ramblinrod]

The definition of cruising is not, "An unemployed and otherwise homeless sailor swilling other people's beer until the crapper overflows".

There are lots of working "cruisers" who take full advantage of weekends and vacations to enjoy spectacular adventures.

If anyone has only experienced a small portion of what "cruising" really is, don't assume that is all there is or can be to it.

We have enjoyed many spectacular cruises from Northern Ontario to the southernmost tip of the continental US, while having only a 5 gallon holding tank, and yet never had a problem getting to a pump-out when needed, usually with the two of us aboard, sometimes with our young son, and never discharged a drop overboard.

"Cruising" is not necessarily only what some with a very limited view may consider it.

[tekdiver]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Just remembered about the poll I ran last year.

Head Poll v2.0 - what type do you have?

Gives a breakdown of what kinds of heads people are using (at least of CF members who respond to head questions ).

Link does not work

[tekdiver]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

The definition of cruising is not, "An unemployed and otherwise homeless sailor swilling other people's beer until the crapper overflows".

There are lots of working "cruisers" who take full advantage of weekends and vacations to enjoy spectacular adventures.

If anyone has only experienced a small portion of what "cruising" really is, don't assume that is all there is or can be to it.

We have enjoyed many spectacular cruises from Norther Ontario to the southernmost tip of the continental US, while having only a 5 gallon holding tank, and yet never had a problem getting to a pump-out when needed, usually with the two of us aboard, sometimes with our young son, and never discharged a drop overboard.

"Cruising" is not necessarily only what some with a very limited view may consider it.

I'm the 4 day weekend and two or three week long type of Cruser

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The last holding tank system I had used a 25 gallon tank. With that, and by trying really hard, my spouse and I (two adults) could go about two to three weeks between pumpouts. But this took real effort and attention. It was not fun...

Our holding tank became the most significant limiting factor for our actual remote and extended journeys. I'm talking about going for months between touching a dock, not just a few days out on Lake Ontario. And despite information to the contrary, there are huge areas of the Great Lakes where pump out facilities are few and far between.

This was one of the major reasons we switched to a composter. With the switch we're now never limited by the size of our holding tank, nor the proximity of a pump out station (which simply don't exist where we are now).

It sounds like the Great Lakes are a special challenge. Can you use a LectraSan there?


I would never bother cruising in an area where getting pump-outs drives passage planning. Ridiculous!



In U.S. waters with the previous boat when we got tired of clashes with the potty police, we acquired a LectraSan and this was a golden bullet. The potty cops would immediately leave as soon as they saw the control panel. And even if there are some no-discharge zones in your area, your ability to legally dump is enormously expanded (and some people might choose to ignore the exact borders of a no-discharge zone, to the extent they are dumping treated and so pretty harmless sewage, in a place away from people and shellfish beds). We had 30 gallons of holding tank capacity and there were mostly two of us, so if we had allowed pumping out to drive our passage plans, then we could have made it work, but we couldn't be bothered to spend time thinking about this crap (so to speak), so the Lectra San was a Godsend.


In Europe of course it's a different world. In the Atlantic you simply divert the toilets to direct overboard and forget about it unless you're near beaches or shellfish beds (well marked on charts). Even the Northern Baltic where there are some rules (because there are no tides, so it's genuinely a bigger issue), it's no problem. The enlightened Swedes and Finns are long on carrots and short on sticks. There are free pumpouts everywhere, even floating ones in popular anchorages. Many people continue to pump directly overboard as a claim of ancient privilege (not all boats even have holding tanks and there is no enforcement), others will use the holding tank until they are a decent distance offshore, then pump, or get a pumpout if there is one on their way. Whatever way you choose to do it, it is no problem.



One thing for sure, NO ONE over here is obsessed with toilets and excrement like the folks in this thread!!! Jeez! People on this side of the pond think about sailing, not poo. It makes me want to never cruise over there again!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by tekdiver

Link does not work

Odd, I just clicked it and it worked fine. How about this one:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ve-224298.html

[tekdiver]

Originally Posted by Islander30Jo

Although there are a lot of threads/posts about the topic, I have a few items to mention on the benefits of composting toilet on a boat.
I personally bought a boat without a working head and enjoyably purchased a nature's head composting toilet. Haven't ever felt like it was the wrong choice, ever. The main benefit is the lack of smell. Regular heads even if regularly cleaned and emptied, still smell. To me its a smell that most people refer to as boat smell where my boat has no smell. As all the plastic hoses and holding tanks get old, they tend to soak up the raw waste and smell themselves which even smell in boats that owners never use. Its the years of sewage sitting in them constantly that you just cant get the smell out of. All of that being said, the composting toilet has zero smell and is super simple. Nothing about it can fail in the same way that a regular head can such as a pipe cracking, maceration pump going out, or just stuff getting blocked up inside the pipe. The composting head is a glorified bucket in a good way that it is either working or full and in need of emptying. I do not live on my boat but have heard from liveaboards online that composting heads need the solids emptied every 2-3 months (assuming 2 adults aboard full time) and the liquids emptied about every 3-5 days. The liquids might be a slight negative on needing to empty more often, but its clean and easy so not to big of an inconvenience. In my mind, and experience, the simplicity of a composting head with zero smell is such a massive benefit over the smell and complexity (not very complex but many parts have the ability to break or get old and leak/ get clogged) to a regular head. On top of all this, the composting head takes only slightly more room in bowl size and most of it is in height rather than more footprint in the head area. Composting toilets have everything right there at the toilet (once again simplicity is key for almost 0 maintenance) where a normal head will need many hoses, another thru-hull for discharge, a deck discharge thru-hull, and majorly a holding tank taking up valuable room under a v-berth or settee. Composting head gives you a lot more room, looks normal, and uses zero water (another valuable resource on a boat)
For those who will make a comment about waste tanks smelling when using saltwater and less so when using freshwater...this is true (saltwater will make them smell worse due to much more nutrient/bacteria present) but both will smell. The smelly part of sewage is actually the solids being mixed with liquids, if you keep them separate, they don't have a strong odor and in composting material the solids will mainly smell like dirt which I've actually never smelt since I have a small cabin top vent running on a small solar fan.

One of the best written statements about Composting toilets I've read. My 1988 Bayliner has a maserator system and holding tank Have not torn into it yet but just thinking about having to scrub and clean someones...or my own waste gags me. So if my system is broke its a gonner LOL

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

The definition of cruising is not, "An unemployed and otherwise homeless sailor swilling other people's beer until the crapper overflows".

There are lots of working "cruisers" who take full advantage of weekends and vacations to enjoy spectacular adventures.

If anyone has only experienced a small portion of what "cruising" really is, don't assume that is all there is or can be to it.

We have enjoyed many spectacular cruises from Northern Ontario to the southernmost tip of the continental US, while having only a 5 gallon holding tank, and yet never had a problem getting to a pump-out when needed, usually with the two of us aboard, sometimes with our young son, and never discharged a drop overboard.

"Cruising" is not necessarily only what some with a very limited view may consider it.

sorry but a Marina hopper is not most of our definition of a cruiser .

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It sounds like the Great Lakes are a special challenge. Can you use a LectraSan there?

I was just wondering where all the onboard treatment systems are in this discussion. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think even a Lectrasan-type device is legal in the Great Lakes, nor any NDZ.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I would never bother cruising in an area where getting pump-outs drives passage planning. Ridiculous!

Agreed. As I say, this was one of the major reasons we made the switch to a composter. It just erases any holding tank limitations.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

In Europe of course it's a different world. In the Atlantic you simply divert the toilets to direct overboard and forget about it unless you're near beaches or shellfish beds (well marked on charts). ... One thing for sure, NO ONE over here is obsessed with toilets and excrement like the folks in this thread!!! Jeez! People on this side of the pond think about sailing, not poo. It makes me want to never cruise over there again!

To be clear, this obsession with poop seems to be an American thing. I've never, ever, had any Canadian official even mildly hint at asking about my boat's head. I don't know anyone who has been accosted, or even checked. And this includes over a decade cruising the Great Lakes.

Now that I'm on the east coast (Newfoundland) I've never even heard about any pump out facility. Certainly didn't have one in my previous marina, and I don't think there's one here in Lewisporte, even though it claims to be the largest recreational marina in Atlantic Canada.

From my experience, the poop police seem confined to the east coast of America. I suppose it makes sense since there's just a lot more boats and boaters there, but I also wonder if it's a symptom of being over-policed; there seems to be cops everywhere down there.

[DanCan]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The last holding tank system I had used a 25 gallon tank. With that, and by trying really hard, my spouse and I (two adults) could go about two to three weeks between pumpouts. But this took real effort and attention. It was not fun...

Our holding tank became the most significant limiting factor for our actual remote and extended journeys. I'm talking about going for months between touching a dock, not just a few days out on Lake Ontario. And despite information to the contrary, there are huge areas of the Great Lakes where pump out facilities are few and far between.

This was one of the major reasons we switched to a composter. With the switch we're now never limited by the size of our holding tank, nor the proximity of a pump out station (which simply don't exist where we are now).

I’m new here. Although I’m still on the marine heads and holding tank. But I’m good at considering pros and cons from each side. You said you could go months without discharging. How come? Urine overboard? Poop bags accumulated on board? I’m interested in crusing in remote areas. Thanks!

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I was just wondering where all the onboard treatment systems are in this discussion. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think even a Lectrasan-type device is legal in the Great Lakes, nor any NDZ.



Agreed. As I say, this was one of the major reasons we made the switch to a composter. It just erases any holding tank limitations.



To be clear, this obsession with poop seems to be an American thing. I've never, ever, had any Canadian official even mildly hint at asking about my boat's head. I don't know anyone who has been accosted, or even checked. And this includes over a decade cruising the Great Lakes.

Now that I'm on the east coast (Newfoundland) I've never even heard about any pump out facility. Certainly didn't have one in my previous marina, and I don't think there's one here in Lewisporte, even though it claims to be the largest recreational marina in Atlantic Canada.

From my experience, the poop police seem confined to the east coast of America. I suppose it makes sense since there's just a lot more boats and boaters there, but I also wonder if it's a symptom of being over-policed; there seems to be cops everywhere down there.

For the poop police its all about getting funds and fleecing a group of people that are to small as a group to fight back in courts.

In all my years i have only been checked one time and it was actually due to my outboard motor failing and no winds drifting close to the TSS they offered to tow my vessel clear and to the nearest anchorage so i could safely affect repairs. ( had a porta potty on that boat ) they checked my boat for USCG compliance. Have not seen a gov boat less than 50 ft since.
So the poop cops seem ro be just an east coast thing.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I was just wondering where all the onboard treatment systems are in this discussion. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think even a Lectrasan-type device is legal in the Great Lakes, nor any NDZ.

Type II MSD's (Lectrasan etc.) are not legal in NDZ's If the whole of the Great Lakes are NDZ's, then it is not legal to discharge even treated waste.


Note however that law compliance is not the only reason to have a Type II MSD. These devices practically sterilize the waste you discharge. A sailor might want to have one of these just for the sake of his own conscience. Especially, but not exclusively, if he is otherwise bending the law. There is no rational reason to ban the discharge of properly treated waste somewhere away from people and shellfish. So some people might not find it morally problematic to violate an NDZ in circumstances where they can be absolutely sure that it doesn't hurt anyone. As a lawyer I can't suggest that anyone do that; I'm just stating a purely hypothetical case

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Agreed. As I say, this was one of the major reasons we made the switch to a composter. It just erases any holding tank limitations.

I get that.



Composting toilets seem gross to me, but it's not something I need to think about, so I don't think about it, and I don't know anything useful about composting toilets, so my opinion will be of zero interest to anyone. Hence I keep my mouth shut; a practice which should be more widespread when people lack experience or any kind of specific knowledge.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by DanCan

I’m new here. Although I’m still on the marine heads and holding tank. But I’m good at considering pros and cons from each side. You said you could go months without discharging. How come? Urine overboard? Poop bags accumulated on board? I’m interested in crushing in remote areas. Thanks!

Lots of discussion on this Dan. Short answer is we (two adults, full time) typically go about a month between having to empty the main bin. I usually empty mine in a remote area on shore, or out at sea. Occasionally we've had to carry the compost material bag for a few days, but not often.

Urine bucket gets emptied over the side every two-three days. Urine is mostly sterile, although it does carry nutrients. Not usually a problem (but not legal).

Once emptied we recharge the head with more compressed coir. I usually have at least a six-month supply of coir on board. I routinely spend two months or more without even touching a dock. This head means a holding tank is never the limiting factor for our travels.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with a functioning holding tank system. Most cruisers who travel in populated areas, who marina hop, or who don't go far or for long, do just fine with hold tank systems.